Ask Me Help Desk - Identifying a possible toilet crack!

Identifying a possible toilet crack!

Hello all,

I had some plumbing work done just the other day, my closet flange was too high (loose toilet) so it was replaced and the height was corrected, naturally the toilet was removed and re-set during the repair. I have now noticed a new mark in the side rear that was not there before. I ran my fingernail over it and it feels smooth, no ridge. Cleaners don't make a difference. I have not sat on this since it was worked on.

Do this look like a hair line crack? Any advice on how to tell, I have never had to deal with this before.

I really appreciate any help!

Thank you!

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3483/toilet.jpg

Wow, that image is so big it is hard to figure out what it is showing even on my large monitor. After I figured out that I'm not looking at an undermount fixture on a flakeboard countertop, I think I can say that it probably is a hairline crack, but if it doesn't grow you should be OK. It it is where I think it is, it isn't into the china that actually carries the water.

Unfortunately, if you do have a problem it won't show up until after the plumber has been gone long enough that he likely won't want to stand behind the problem. One thing that makes this much less than obviously the plumber's fault is the fact that the crack appears black. If this were fresh and the plumber did it there would be no discoloration unless there is actually leakage. A high flange and rocking commode could have caused this earlier.

I have had customers find problems that they swore were not there before I worked on their job and yet I know I had absolutely nothing to do with it.

My advice is to notify the plumber about it now and see if you can come to some kind of agreement. You may have to be flexible. Maybe you could pay materials and he will do the labor or something. Most mechanics are not shysters. I can tell you from the tradesman side of things, if you are hard about something that he honestly believes he is not responsible for, you have just blown off someone who you may need later. Even this, if he believes he honestly had nothing to do with it, will probably end your relationship. I hate these things. A couple of good pictures at the start of the job could have prevented this.

I think that pic will make more sense if you rotate it 1/4 turn counterclockwise. The yellow tile is the floor, right. That is a crack, if it wasn't there before and happened as a result of the work call they guy doing the work. Bet it was not an actual plumber was it?

1 Attachment(s)

Here is a reduced picture. Looks like a crack to me.
However, if it is a crack I would think you would be able to feel it with your finger nail.
I know you said it wasn't there before the work was done,
But could you be mistaken?

Its location is not where a crack would occur due to over tightening during installation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballengerb1

I think that pic will make more sense if you rotate it 1/4 turn <snip>

Yeah, got that. Was just trying to lighten things up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPMiller

Wow, that image is so big it is hard to figure out what it is showing even on my large monitor. After I figured out that I'm not looking at an undermount fixture on a flakeboard countertop, I think I can say that it probably is a hairline crack, but if it doesn't grow you should be OK. It it is where I think it is, it isn't into the china that actually carries the water.

Unfortunately, if you do have a problem it won't show up until after the plumber has been gone long enough that he likely won't want to stand behind the problem. One thing that makes this much less than obviously the plumber's fault is the fact that the crack appears black. If this were fresh and the plumber did it there would be no discoloration unless there is actually leakage. A high flange and rocking commode could have caused this earlier.

I have had customers find problems that they swore were not there before I worked on their job and yet I know I had absolutely nothing to do with it.

My advice is to notify the plumber about it now and see if you can come to some kind of agreement. You may have to be flexible. Maybe you could pay materials and he will do the labor or something. Most mechanics are not shysters. I can tell you from the tradesman side of things, if you are hard about something that he honestly believes he is not responsible for, you have just blown off someone who you may need later. Even this, if he believes he honestly had nothing to do with it, will probably end your relationship. I hate these things. A couple of good pictures at the start of the job could have prevented this.

Hi EPMiller. Thank you for your informative repsonse. Sorry about the photo, I'll redo if at least to get it right.

I remember cleaning the entire toilet thoroughly the night before, and that mark was not there. If it were there, I would have asked the mechanic to assess it before any work was done. I also feel if he accidentally did it and noticed he did, he should have said something. If a mechanic came across this before the work was started, or even during a job, wouldn't he say something at that point?

I like the mechanic who did the work. He did a great job and I wouldn't hesitate to call his company again. Believe me, I am not out to screw him over or blame others for what is not their issue or something I have done.

I will take your advice and call his company in the morning. I'll explain the situation and hopefully he will come out and we can go from there.

For what it's worth, are these photos any better or any more revealing?

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9857/dsc00546qj.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6488/dsc00547l.jpg

Thank you again, I truly appreciate your help and advice!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballengerb1

I think that pic will make more sense if you rotate it 1/4 turn counterclockwise. the yellow tile is the floor, right. That is a crack, if it wasn't there before and happened as a result ofthe work call they guy doing the work. Bet it was not an actual plumber was it??

Hi Ballengerb1, yes indeed it was an actual plumber from a very reputable company.

Thanks for the better photos. They confirmed what I thought I originally saw. That black in the crack still bothers me. Yes, probably he should have said something if he saw that. Perhaps he thought you knew it and went on with his work. Yes he definitely should have said something if he caused it. At least he could have verified to you if it was strictly cosmetic and what you wanted done.

Good luck, and I hope everyone comes out of this on good terms with each other. Just remember, to err is human. To forgive is divine. :)

Got to hit the hay. Tomorrow is an early start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPMiller

Thanks for the better photos. They confirmed what I thought I originally saw. That black in the crack still bothers me. Yes, probably he should have said something if he saw that. Perhaps he thought you knew it and went on with his work. Yes he definitely should have said something if he caused it. At least he could have verified to you if it was strictly cosmetic and what you wanted done.

Good luck, and I hope everyone comes out of this on good terms with each other. Just remember, to err is human. To forgive is divine. :)

Gotta hit the hay. Tomorrow is an early start.

Thanks again.

The black is strange. It almost looks like it could be a metal mark, doesn't it?

You knew it was a crack before you asked didn't you? Yep it' sa crark all right. Take a piece of TP and hold over the crack while someone flushes the toilet. Any moisture on the paper? Let me know, Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedball1

You knew it was a crack before you asked didn't you? Yep it' sa crark alright. Take a piece of TP and hold over the crack while someone flushes the toilet. Any moisture on the paper? Let me know, Tom

Hi Tom. I honestly was not sure, I have never seen one before.

I just did what you said, no moisture on the paper.

Thanks,

Matt

Then you're good to go. It's not cracked near the closet bolts and it's not leaking from the bowl. Sometimes a imperfect bowl will slip by quality control or it could have internal stress. You can tell if it was dropped by checking the base of the crack 2where it would hit the floor. Ant fractured or cracked areas? If not use it. Good luck, Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedball1

Then you're good to go. It's not cracked near the closet bolts and it's not leaking from the bowl. Sometimes a imperfect bowl will slip by quality control or it could have internal stress. You can tell if it was dropped by checking the base of the crack 2where it would hit the floor. Ant fractured or cracked areas? If not go ahead and use it. Good luck, Tom

Thanks Tom. I don't see any fractures or cracked areas. I suppose I would have to remove the caulk at the base to see if it were dropped. My concern would be about the crack spreading over time.

Thanks,

Matt

Judging by where this crack is located you may never get any moisture from it unless your wax ring is shot. I see you say he is a plumber but refer to him as a mechanic?? Whoever sealed the toilet with caulk would have seen that crack and should have brought it your attention. It is strictly up to you if you want to raise a complaint but that crack will get worse over time. It does not appear to be the type of crack from over tightening the johnnie bolts but more likely a hard object striking the china.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballengerb1

Judging by where this crack is located you may never get any moisture from it unless your wax ring is shot. I see you say he is a plumber but refer to him as a mechanic??? Whoever sealed the toilet with caulk would have seen that crack and should have brought it your attention. It is strictly up to you if you want to raise a complaint but that crack will get worse over time. It does not appear to be the type of crack from over tightening the johnnie bolts but more likely a hard object striking the china.

Thanks for the response. I believe someone else mentioned mechanic and I was not sure if I should refer to him as a plumber or a mechanic. He was a plumber. :)

From the kind advice in this thread, I gather it is OK to use now. In fear of it getting worse, I did email the photos to the plumber (I'm a big guy, so I bet it would spread :o). No response yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballengerb1

Judging by where this crack is located you may never get any moisture from it unless your wax ring is shot. I see you say he is a plumber but refer to him as a mechanic??? Whoever sealed the toilet with caulk would have seen that crack and should have brought it your attention. It is strictly up to you if you want to raise a complaint but that crack will get worse over time. It does not appear to be the type of crack from over tightening the johnnie bolts but more likely a hard object striking the china.

Is sealing the base of the toilet (as was done here) normally done? You mention the wax ring possibly being shot at some point, which could lead to leaking at the base. Wouldn't sealing the base hide the leak, which obviously wouldn't be a good thing. I'm not a plumber, but common sense tells me the base shouldn't be sealed so any possible leaks at the base/flange area would be caught soon.
So what do the experts say?