Hello:

Evidence has emerged that Lithuanian intelligence agencies allowed secret CIA prisons to be built in their country during the Bush era. I mean just because such prisons are illegal under the so-called "law" of Lithuania and other international conventions to which that nation is a signatory, the irresponsible leaders of that country are demanding "investigations" and even possibly legal consequences if it turns out crimes were committed.

What kind of a backwards, primitive country would do something like this?

What makes what we did there even worse, is the letter Rumsfeld wrote to the people of Vilnius where he said, "... I also had the chance to spend an enjoyable and educational Sunday morning walking through your historic, old town district and visiting the KGB museum. The museum was a stark reminder of the importance of preserving our liberty at all costs, and the visit helped me understand the depth of Lithuania’s commitment to freedom."

You guessed it. The "KGB museum" was an old style Soviet prison where torture was rampant... Then he built a secret CIA prison where torture was rampant.

Poland has also launched investigations.. Italy just convicted 22 CIA agents for kidnapping. Pretty soon, our guys won't be able to leave the country cause they'll get arrested.

Isn't it about time we started doing our own dirty work?

excon

Rummy always talked out of both sides of his mouth at once. Quite a feat but he was a master at it.

As far as the CIA guys getting nabbed - well, you can definitely thank a lot of the blabbermouths that work for the CIA doing "good" for that. Look at Valerie Plame. She was doing just great until Bushy and his cohorts decided to slam her into the public eye ruining her career just because they didn't like the fact that hubby Joe told the truth about the yellowcake to the world. Payback's a b*tch.

Twice already the Lithuanian Parliament has investigated possible CIA black op prison cites and came up empty.

On Wednesday, ABC, citing unnamed Lithuanian officials and an unnamed former American intelligence operative............

The new site is reportedly in a horse riding academy . What did they do?. force the prisoners to ride with English saddles ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The new site is reportedly in a horse riding academy . What did they do ?.... force the prisoners to ride with English saddles ?

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Hello tom:

We did unspeakable things to them... Too horrible even for YOU. That's why you make light.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello tom:

We did unspeakable things to them... Too horrible even for YOU. That's why you make light.

excon

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Unspeakable - like beheading prisoners and broadcasting the beheading on the internet for their family to see?

Allegedly, unspeakable things like "various forms of torture, including sleep deprivation, forced standing, painful stress positions." Sounds a little like being a new parent. They probably blasted them with the Village People, too.

Detainee's in Iraq are turning the tables on us, though...

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

Unspeakable - like beheading prisoners and broadcasting the beheading on the internet for their family to see?

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Hello Cats:

Yeah, THEY did bad things to us... But, I didn't know we let our enemy dictate what OUR morals are. But, if that's how we're going to act, why don't we just hijack a few of THEIR planes and fly them into THEIR buildings?

excon

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Allegedly, unspeakable things like

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Hello Steve:

So, you're telling me, that the torturers at a SECRET CIA prison are going to follow rules?? Rules that haven't been written yet?? What about the rule that says secret CIA prisons are against the rules?

You too want to make light... I guess if the president I voted for did this, I'd try to make light too...

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello Cats:

Yeah, THEY did bad things to us.... But, I didn't know we let our enemy dictate what OUR morals are. But, if that's how we're gonna act, why don't we just hijack a few of THEIR planes and fly them into THEIR buildings?

excon

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They don't have any. They have to buy things from us. That's a major factor in the whole cultural conflict.

Edit: How come we do "unspeakable" things and they do "bad" things? Shades of MSNBC bias.

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

Edit: How come we do "unspeakable" things and they do "bad" things? Shades of MSNBC bias.

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Hello again, Cats:

Just choice of words... I make no distinctions between them.

If you're suggesting, however, that because I revere our Constitution and our international treaties, that I somehow don't like this country as much as those of you who would, for all practical purposes, throw the Constitution overboard, because it is, as toms says, a suicide pact - if that's what you're suggesting, you'd be wrong.

Furthermore, I EXPECT our enemies to act like animals. I am APPALLED that we do.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Isn't it about time we started doing our own dirty work?

excon

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What is a terrorist? "A person engaging in planning and execution of heinous acts intended to kill innocent people and scare everyone else." Terrorists have guns, bombs, and other destructive weapons. Terrorists do not have rights.

If I caught up with a terrorist, he would be happy to be in one of those places you are complaining about.

Let's put it another way: Let's say there is no police department and no courts. You and your gang are on the next block. You bust into my house, kill my wife and kids, and burn my house down. I am coming for you, pal. You better run and not get caught. I think the dude on "24" has the right idea except when he goes all mushy to keep the women happy and satisfied.

The folks you portray as victims are lucky to be alive. Besides, you progressives don't believe in individual rights anyway, except to exploit in pursuing your agenda in some fashion.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Cats:

Just choice of words... I make no distinctions between them.

If you're suggesting, however, that because I revere our Constitution and our international treaties, that I somehow don't like this country as much as those of you who would, for all practical purposes, throw the Constitution overboard, because it is, as toms says, a suicide pact - if that's what you're suggesting, you'd be wrong.

Furthermore, I EXPECT our enemies to act like animals. I am APPALLED that we do.

excon

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Yes, Ex, a culture at least seven times older than ours can condone barbarism. And I found out that Uncle Sam isn't a virgin about the same time you did. I'm curious as to why you expect the US to treat our avowed enemies better than we treated our avowed friends the Cherokee. What's changed?

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Let's say there is no police department and no courts. You and your gang are on the next block. You bust into my house, kill my wife and kids, and burn my house down. I am coming for you, pal.

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Hello again, George:

I'd agree with the above, IF it were that way... You certainly don't think I'm any nicer than you, do you?

But, as a civilized nation, we've given up vigilantism in order to be a nation of laws. Given that fact, if you did what you propose to do above, as justified as you might be, you'd go to jail..

In that same vein, we DO have laws against torture, and those people who violate them, even if their intentions were honorable, should go to jail.

excon

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

I'm curious as to why you expect the US to treat our avowed enemies better than we treated our avowed friends the Cherokee. What's changed?

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Hello again, Cats:

When a problem occurs, I look to the law and the Constitution for a solution. I do NOT look back to see who owes who what.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, George:

I'd agree with the above, IF it were that way...... You certainly don't think I'm any nicer than you, do you?

But, as a civilized nation, we've given up vigilantism in order to be a nation of laws. Given that fact, if you did what you propose to do above, as justified as you might be, you'd go to jail..

In that same vein, we DO have laws against torture, and those people who violate them, even if their intentions were honorable, should go to jail.

excon

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Thankfully, the POTUS has no court and no law to consult in the pursuit of protecting the nation. I was involved in a domestic case once; the judge, like many, understood human nature very well. The operative phrase in his order, punishable by contempt, was, "Do whatever is necessary..." President Bush did what was necessary, and we were not attacked during the next seven years. I am satisfied with his effort. I am totally disgusted with President Clinton's handling of the terrorism issue. In fact, his people made our situation much more dangerous for Americans.
Let us assume the next attack is being planned. What do you believe the planners are thinking insofar as Obama's ability to interdict them? What kind of information has already been lost for the sake of providing constitutional rights to terrorists? As I said before, terrorists don't have rights. Actually, you agree with me.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Cats:

When a problem occurs, I look to the law and the Constitution for a solution....

excon

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Naaaaa... just self-serving malarky. The constitution says nothing about health care, abortion, medicare, welfare, and on and on. In fact, the constitution says a lot about states rights, but you you don't want any of the states voting on those issues. What do you do when cherries aren't in season?

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Originally Posted by George_1950

Thankfully, the POTUS has no court and no law to consult in the pursuit of protecting the nation.

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Hello George:

And, you, apparently think the president doesn't have ANY laws he has to obey... But, of course, he has to follow the Constitution too. Bummer that you don't know that.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello:

Evidence has emerged that Lithuanian intelligence agencies allowed secret CIA prisons to be built in their country during the Bush era. the irresponsible leaders of that country are demanding "investigations" and even possibly legal consequences if it turns out crimes were committed.

What kind of a backwards, primitive country would do something like this?

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I think you know the answer to question ex. The backwoods primitive country that would do something like this is the USA. I know this is the answer you were seeking, it's a no brainer, but then you also have to ask what sort of backwoods, primitive county would have elected an inarticulate George W Bush in the first place, a man capable to allowing such acts. The answer is a little less obvious, the same backwoods, primitive country that would elect articulate Barrack Obama, a man who's capabilities remain untapped. So what happened, did he USA suddenly become collectively smarter in eight years? Or did the reflection they saw in the mirror give them pause to say I don't want to be seen to be like that?

It's all about perceptions and right now we are seeing an America very focused upon itself

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello George:

And, you, apparently think the president doesn't have ANY laws he has to obey... But, of course, he has to follow the Constitution too...

excon

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Last time I checked, the president is commander-in-chief of the armed forces, a datum that your president seems to neglect. The constitution didn't stop another of your presidents from dropping atomic weapons in Japan. Want to discuss rights further?

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Originally Posted by excon

Furthermore, I EXPECT our enemies to act like animals. I am APPALLED that we do.

excon

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Ex it has obviously escaped you that to the extent and with the standard you judge others, you will yourself be judged. That applies to nations as well as individuals. What this means is if you judge others to behave like animals you will be presented with situations that call for you to do otherwise and apparently a certain nation was weighed and found wanting