Ask Me Help Desk - Ground connection

Hi

I'm checking to make sure I'm not seeing things or missing something...

In my current electrical panel (which I'm about to upgrade) I have the neutral and ground bars tied together with a bar. This panel is the original and is probably 10+ years old.

Coming from the meter housing there are three wires - 2 hot wires and a neutral. The two hot wires are connected to the appropriate main breakers and the neutral is connected to the neutral bar, which in turn is connected to the ground bar. Over the years as breakers have been added, the various ground and neutral wires for each new circuit have been mixed between the two bars and we now have ground wires and neutral wires connected to both bars. As the two bars are tied together, I'm guessing there is no problem with that - just looks bad.

My question is - I don't see a ground wire or anything that physically connects the ground/neutral bars to the ground/earth. Yet in other homes I've seen a ground wire connected to the water pipe or to a rod in the earth. I do have a multi-stranded aluminium wire connected to the ground bar that goes back into the house. Could that be connected to the earth? And is that correct to code?

As I'm about to upgrade the panel I'd like to know if I should have a ground rod or something visible at the main panel.

Thanks
Youngfield.

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngfield

In my current electrical panel (which I'm about to upgrade) I have the neutral and ground bars tied together with a bar.

That is correct. The neutral and ground are tied together at only one location. Since this is not a sub panel you are OK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngfield

Over the years as breakers have been added, the various ground and neutral wires for each new circuit have been mixed between the two bars and we now have ground wires and neutral wires conected to both bars. As the two bars are tied together, I'm guessing there is no problem with that - just looks bad.

No problem and very common. In this service panel installation that is OK. It would not be OK in a sub panel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngfield

question is - I don't see a ground wire or anything that physically connects the ground/neutral bars to the ground/earth. Yet in other homes I've seen a ground wire connected to the water pipe or to a rod in the earth. I do have a multi-stranded aluminium wire connected to the ground bar that goes back into the house. Could that be connected to the earth? and is that correct to code?

The panel needs to be grounded. It could possibly be by the wire you mention. If you are upgrading the panel you may need to replace it. The required conductor size for your panel ground may change and it also must be continuous, no splices.

If you are in doubt as to the currently installed means of grounding, then definitely replace it. The inspector will want to see it anyway.

Hi medic-dan

Thanks for the answers.

I'm nervous that at some time the ground wire may have been chopped or who knows what else may have happened to it as it is inside the wall cavity and not visible. So I think I will put in some new ground rods. To be safe.

Thanks again
Youngfield.

I'm going to make a couple of comments:

1. You can read the NEC online by following at the Sticky at the top left of this page under "Electrical & Lighting" and registering.

2. There are other good reasons to keep the grounds separate from the neutrals and to ground at one point rather than intermix. Take a look at this Sticky: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/electr...on-386501.html

3. Sometimes two ground rods are used with a specific spacing and continuous conductor joining the two all because the ground resistance required cannot be verified.

4. The plumbing system needs to be grounded within a certain distance after entering the building. If you have to run a wire 40', you have to run one 40'.

5. Cable and telco connections SHOULD also be bonded at the same ground rod point. In old construction, this could prove difficult.

6. Additional ground bars can be purchased to make wiring a bit nicer.

7. Specifics, see the code and any rules you AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) has.