Ask Me Help Desk

Ask Me Help Desk (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forum.php)
-   Current Events (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=486)
-   -   STOP THE PRESSES. The French actually won a fight (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=403975)

  • Oct 8, 2009, 01:01 PM
    ETWolverine
    STOP THE PRESSES. The French actually won a fight
    Somali pirates attack French military flagship - Yahoo! News

    Quote:


    Somali pirates attack French military flagship

    Wed Oct 7, 11:10 am ET

    NAIROBI (AFP) – Somali pirates attempted to storm the French navy's 18,000 tonne flagship in the Indian Ocean after mistaking it for a cargo vessel, the French military said on Wednesday.

    The crew of La Somme, a 160-metre (525-foot) command vessel and fuel tanker, easily saw off the brazen night-time assault by lightly armed fighters on two lightweight skiffs and captured five pirates, a spokesman said.

    "The pirates, who because of the darkness took the French ship for a commercial vessel, were on board two vessels and opened fire with Kalashnikovs," Admiral Christophe Prazuck said in Paris.

    La Somme is the French command vessel in the Indian Ocean, overseeing French air, sea and land forces fighting Somali pirates and hunting terrorists under the banner of the US-led Operation Enduring Freedom.
    Officers on the ship have directed commando operations to free French hostages in the hands of Somali pirates.

    The pirates tried to flee when they realised their mistake but were pursued by French forces who, after an hour-long chase, caught one of the skiffs, Prazuck said.

    On it they found five men but no weapons, water or food as the pirates had apparently thrown all of the boat's contents overboard, the spokesman said.

    A Western official at sea in the area, speaking to AFP on condition of anonymity, said that there had been an exchange of fire between the warship and the pirate launches.

    "One of the skiffs managed to get away in the night because La Somme was busy with the first pirate boat," he said.

    "Despite the arrival of other vessels, they haven't yet managed to find the second boat," he said, adding that many warships in the area were busy hunting another group which attacked a cargo ship off the Seychelles on Sunday.

    The world's naval powers have deployed dozens of warships to the lawless waters off Somalia over the past year to curb attacks by pirates in one of the world's busiest maritime trade routes.

    La Somme was operating 250 nautical miles (460 kilometres) off the Somali coast, on its way to resupply fuel to frigates patrolling shipping lanes as part of the European Union's Operation Atalanta anti-piracy mission.

    This was not the first time that Somali pirates have mistakenly attacked a French naval vessel. Several pirates were captured in May when they attempted to board a frigate in the area.

    Somalia has had no proper government since it plunged into lawlessness after President Mohamed Siad Barre was overthrown in 1991.

    The country is riven by factional fighting and pirate gangs operate freely from several ports along its Indian Ocean and Gulf of Aden coasts.

    According to the environmental watchdog Ecoterra International, at least 163 attacks have been carried out by Somali pirates since the start of 2009 alone, 47 of them successful hijackings.

    Last year, more than 130 merchant ships were attacked, an increase of more than 200 percent on 2007, according to the International Maritime Bureau's Piracy Reporting Centre in Kuala Lumpur.

    Pirates have in recent weeks resumed attacks with the end of the monsoon season. Last week Somali gunmen captured Spanish fishing boat The Alakrana with 36 crew members in the Indian Ocean.

    The US Maritime Administration warned last month that the end of the monsoon season was likely to bring an increase in piracy off Somalia and urged shipping companies to be vigilant. Calmer waters allow pirates, who often operate in small fibreglass skiffs towed out to sea by captured fishing vessels, to hijack freighters, trawlers and private yachts. Cruise vessels have also been attacked.
    Now... I don't know much about naval affairs. I'm pretty good at general military information, but I am no expert at sea battle strategy or tactics. I'm a ground-pounder at heart.

    But it seems to me that even in the dark there would be significant differences between a merchant ship and a naval vesel. The profile of a naval vessel just LOOKS different from a merchie.

    Which means that the pirates had to be blind, stupid or both.

    So... is this a reflection of how good the French military is becoming, or is it more reflective of how bad the pirates are.

    In any case, I salute the crew of the La Somme for their good work. They deserve their day in the spotlight.

    Elliot
  • Oct 8, 2009, 01:24 PM
    tomder55

    Disguising Man'o'war as helpless merchant ship loaded with booty is one of the tried and true tactics of the past in combating piracy. I encourage similar deceptions .Let them think twice about who they are attacking .
    You be the judge if this can be mistaken for a merchant ship.
    http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20091007/c...kc0Bko.Sh3VA--
    The pirates are lucky they were chased down . They could've run into a commander who decided the ocean needed a little more chum.
    I know Devil's Island was shut down many years ago. But there is still room in GITMO I bet . Pirates in the modern vernacular are no more than illegal enemy combatants and should be treated as such... or more to the point, illegal combatants are no more than pirates.
  • Oct 8, 2009, 01:50 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    They could've run into a commander who decided the ocean needed a little more chum.

    LOL, sometimes you really have a way with words.

    Here's a little better look at the vessel:

    http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20091007/ca...gel_ieucIHxA--
  • Oct 8, 2009, 02:07 PM
    ETWolverine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Disguising Man'o'war as helpless merchant ship loaded with booty is one of the tried and true tactics of the past in combating piracy. I encourage simular deceptions .Let them think twice about who they are attacking .
    You be the judge if this can be mistaken for a merchant ship.
    http://d.yimg.com/a/p/afp/20091007/c...kc0Bko.Sh3VA--
    The pirates are lucky they were chased down . They could've run into a commander who decided the ocean needed a little more chum.
    I know Devil's Island was shut down many years ago. But there is still room in GITMO I bet . Pirates in the modern vernacular are no more than illegal enemy combatants and should be treated as such.....or more to the point, illegal combatants are no more than pirates.

    Well, you're certainly right that disguising themselves as merchant vessels is a time-honored tradition of all European navies. Historically it was done by having the naval ship fly the flag of a civilian ship instead of their military flag in order to trick the pirate into closing with her for engagement. On the other hand, the pirates often tricked merchants by flying naval flags in order to get close enough to the merchant to chase it down, so the tactic worked in BOTH directions.

    But I don't think that's what happened in this case. I think that the pirates just screwed up by the numbers.

    And I would think that it would be difficult to trick pirates these days unless it was dark. Military ships are just CLEANER, less worn, and they are shaped differently. During daylight hours, it's pretty easy to tell a merchie from a warship. And unlike some modern navies that have radar, lidar, sonar and other electronic equipment that can be spoofed, the pirates are dealing with their mark-one eyeballs and very minimal electronic gear. So you can't spoof them with electronic counter-measures. The only way to trick them the way you suggest (that I can think of) would be to do it at night.

    Oh, there is one other tried and true trick. Pirates LOVE distressed civillians. They're helpless and easy to raid. If the naval vessels can put out a fake civilian distress call ("help, our engine broke") and draw in the pirates, they could probably get a good shot at them.

    But making a modern navy ship LOOK like a civilian merchant ship... that's not so easy, even in the dark.

    So I am guessing that that is NOT what happened here.

    Not that it would be a bad idea. I just don't know if it is feasible.

    I wish Dennis "KINDJ" were still around. An old SEAL like him would know more about this than any of us.

    Elliot
  • Oct 8, 2009, 02:28 PM
    Catsmine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    The pirates are lucky they were chased down . They could've run into a commander who decided the ocean needed a little more chum.
    I know Devil's Island was shut down many years ago. But there is still room in GITMO I bet . Pirates in the modern vernacular are no more than illegal enemy combatants and should be treated as such.....or more to the point, illegal combatants are no more than pirates.

    There's no need for Gitmo or Devil's Island or even the Bastille. Piracy on the high seas has clear cut penalties prescribed by international treaty. All it will take is some modern commander with the big brass ones of a Nelson or a Drake to enforce it.
  • Oct 8, 2009, 02:36 PM
    tomder55

    My response was moslty tongue in cheek. What I would do is have a squad of DKs or marines fully armed on a merchant ship for the deception .
  • Oct 8, 2009, 02:43 PM
    Catsmine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    my response was moslty tongue in cheek. What I would do is have a squad of DKs or marines fully armed on a merchant ship for the deception .

    Oh, no. I actually like the idea of pirate chum. But then I really am the barbarian that clete thinks I am. You know, believing in silly things like honor and integrity and what not.
  • Oct 8, 2009, 02:48 PM
    ETWolverine
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    my response was moslty tongue in cheek. What I would do is have a squad of DKs or marines fully armed on a merchant ship for the deception .

    Now THAT would work.

    Or a yacht... pirates love yachts. Usually they are manned by older sillyvillians with liberal thought processes, which means that they tend to be unarmed in dangerous waters. Yachts mean MONEY, high end marine electronics (for sillivillian pilots who don't really know how to pilot a yacht), and comfortable acoutrements that sell on the open (black) market for good money. Also, they often have young women who follow the sillyvillian owners around like sugar-daddies... another asset that sells well on the black market.

    So, a short platoon of marines on a large yacht would be just what the doctor ordered.

    Elliot
  • Oct 8, 2009, 04:22 PM
    paraclete
    Perhaps we expect too much of an uneducated rabble to be able to distinguish a warship from a merchant ship. A ship on the horizon is a ship, even if it looks a little strange it doesn't have the usual profile of a war ship, but you would have expected that French saw them coming so they must be fairly bad shots to have let one boat get away
  • Oct 11, 2009, 03:30 AM
    tomder55

    Yesterday French soldiers aboard two French tuna trawlers opened fire at two pirate skiffs to ward off an attack near the Seychelles islands.
    The soldiers stationed aboard the tuna trawlers first warned the pirates away with flares and warning shots. But once the pirates used their weapons, the soldiers returned fire.
    It appears that the French are intent of defending their right of safe passage in the Gulf of Aden by stationing military escorts on board French boats .

    Since Operation Atalanta began the French have captured 22 pirates and returned them to Kenya ;and have arrested 15 others who had captured French vessels.
    Operation Atalanta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Last month a NORK crew fought off a pirate attack using molotov cocktails... and the crew of 2 Egyptian fishing trawlers overpowered their pirate captors and sailed back to Cairo with 8 of their former captors .They had been held captive for 4 months.
  • Oct 11, 2009, 01:30 PM
    paraclete
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    yesterday French soldiers aboard two French tuna trawlers opened fire at two pirate skiffs to ward off an attack near the Seychelles islands.
    The soldiers stationed aboard the tuna trawlers first warned the pirates away with flares and warning shots. But once the pirates used their weapons, the soldiers returned fire.
    It appears that the French are intent of defending their right of safe passage in the Gulf of Aden by stationing military escorts on board French boats .

    Since Operation Atalanta began the French have captured 22 pirates and returned them to Kenya ;and have arrested 15 others who had captured French vessels.
    Operation Atalanta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Last month a NORK crew fought off a pirate attack using molotov cocktails ...and the crew of 2 Egyptian fishing trawlers overpowered their pirate captors and sailed back to Cairo with 8 of their former captors .They had been held captive for 4 months.

    No one said the french were stupid Tom, just bad shots. What is stupid is that these pirates expect to continue to get away with this once naval vessels have been deployed to stop them

  • All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:57 AM.