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Just heard on the radio today that secret underground nuclear testing areas were discovered in Iran. I hope that the U.N. will be able to impose some tough sanctions on them to prevent disaster before it is too late. Russia and China need to send a much tougher message that this won't be tolerated or Iran won't take it seriously.
The news of the site wasn't the only news regarding Iranian efforts to acquire nukes .Last week an Iranian exile group identify two sites near Tehran where the regime is trying to make nuclear detonators.
Russia and China will not allow serious sanctions . China has a huge investment in Iran
Deepening China-Iran Ties Weaken Bid to Isolate Iran - washingtonpost.com
And Russia sees them as a client state for their conventional weapons
Russia Finds an Eager Weapons Buyer in Iran : NPR
As well as parts for nuclear development.
Russia to complete Iran nuclear plant in 2009 -Tass | World | Reuters
This summer there was a drama on the seas involving a Russian ship that most likely was smuggling equipment to Iran.
Writer: I was threatened after questioning Russian ship hijack - CNN.com
You didn't hear about it in the dinosaur media ? What a surprise!
If this weren't so serious I would find it hilarious coming in the wake of the President of the world's silly address to the UN about nuclear kumbaya . "Those nations that refuse to live up to their obligations must face consequences" he said as he has been retreating from any American commitment that requires the use of force.Why should the delusional homicidal messianic thugs running Iran believe anything we say regrarding threats ?
The President actually had no intention of even disclosing the fact that we knew about the 2nd reactor. His hand was forced because Iran found out we knew and reported it to the IAEA first in a letter . The IAEA in truth did not notify the United States or other member states of the receipt of the Iranian letter or its contents(so much for their oversight) .Obama then scrambled to make his press announcment to try to make it appear that we were on top of this.
We were more than content to let this smoking gun proof of Iranian violations go unreported . Why ? Could it be that we do not want to prevent disaster before it is too late ? Or we don't want to make the hard choices necessary to prevent an Iranian bomb? Just last week the Vice President said that the Iranians do not pose a nuclear threat (while discussing our throwing Poland under the bus).
Embargoes on Iranian exports of oil and imports of gasoline might make a dent. But we saw how well UN led sanctions worked against Iraq. 'Oil for Food' made a bunch of UN bureaucrats very rich. Other economic sanctions like subsidies of economic development / loan guarantees might be tried . But that would only work if all nations (especially China) were on board. Ending infrastructure development might work if the Ruskies cooperated . Banking squeezes could be employed .
But again these require the world's cooperation and the patience and time for them to work. I suspect that the Iranians are much closer to getting the bomb than we have been led to believe . I don't think time is on our side.
Obama will appease and call it engagement while proliferation spreads it's tentacles across the globe. Will the Gulf States counter with their own programs ? Yes . Will Japan build them to counter the NORK threat ? Probably. Will we watch and do nothing while Caracas builds ? Yes . Will Brazil build to counter the Venezuelan threat ? Yes.
Hello tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Yeah, Cheney and Obama are conspiring together... DUDE! You been tea bagged.
excon
Hello Earl:
The SILENCE from the righty's is defening.. How come they're not sniveling about Obama's weakness like they usually do?
I'll tell you why. It's cause HE AIN'T weak! HE'S the guy who caught Iran in the lie. HE'S the guy who called them out on it. HE'S the guy who "drew a line in the sand" with them. HE'S the guy who laid down the law to them.
HE'S goooood at leading the US, and the world too. VERY GOOD!
excon
For the record . The President had NO intention of disclosing the fact that we knew about the site at Qom . He rushed his announcement during the middle of the G-20 meeting because the Mahdi-hatter gave a letter to the IAEA admitting the site's existence. The claim they use now;that the President was planning to use the knowledge of the site as an ace in negotiations with the Iranians is laughable . Obama panicked and ran to Brown and Sarkozy for cover when the press in Vienna got wind of the letter .
Obama's unplanned Iran news - Laura Rozen - POLITICO.comQuote:
Interviews with administration and international officials, diplomats, non-proliferation and Iran experts suggest the administration had no plans to announce its suspicions before beginning international talks with Iran next week. But its hand was forced after learning some time during the week of a letter Iran had sent the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency in Vienna acknowledging construction of a previously undisclosed facility. …
Indeed, one international official who asked for anonymity said that to this person's knowledge, it was an Associated Press reporter in Vienna, George Jahn, who having learned of the Iranian letter, may have first tipped off western officials to its existence.
The narrative I guess is that the brilliant Obama courted Iran, offered to meet without preconditions, released Iranian special forces who killed American troops , refused to support demonstartors in Tehran, dismantled the defense missile shield that was intended to deflect Iranian missiles ,and offered to disarm us of all nukes... all in an effort to lull them into a false sense of confidence so that the President could deliver this diplomatic bombshell ! Brilliant! As brilliant as Neville Chamberlain was in his negotiations .
The President said “Iran's leaders must now choose — they can live up to their responsibilities and achieve integration with the community of nations. Or they will face increased pressure and isolation, and deny opportunity to their own people.”
Wow... now that's tough!! This is their last chance before...
There is a new deadline of three months for Tehran to "prove" that it has peaceful intentions, according to Evita Clintoon.(keep on moving those goal posts... kicking the can down the road)
It reminds me of a scene from 'Team America'
YouTube - Kim Jung Il pwns Hans BlixQuote:
Kim Jong-Il: Hans Brix? Oh, no.
KJI: Oh, herro, great to see you again, Hans.
Hans Blix: Mr. II, I was supposed to be allowed to inspect your palace today,and your guards won't let me into certain areas.
KJI: Hans, Hans, Hans. We've been through this a dozen times.
I don't have any weapons of mass destruction, okay, Hans?
HB: Then let me look around so I can ease the U.N.'s collective mind.
KJI: Hans, you're breaking my barrs here. Hans, you're breaking my barrs.
HB: I'm sorry, but the U.N. must be firm with you.
Let me see your whole palace or else.
KJI: Or else what?
HB: Or else we will be very,very angry with you. And we will write you a letter telling you how angry we are.
The Mullahs clearly are concerned about “opportunity for their own people.” They have demonstrated that vivedly since the election on the streets of Tehran.
Do I think the President is weak ? Lol
(“I'm not interested in victory”.)
YouTube - Obama On Iran: "I''m Not Interested in Victory"
My question is ;when will the President get tired of having his extended hand of friendship getting spit on ?
I really am hoping that this news is the stimulus needed for the President to grow a spine and even perhaps promote American interests on the world stage . Am I counting on it ? Nope.
I am certain of one thing.
Israel will not be destroyed. Bible prophecy tells us that during the Great Tribulation, she will be reduced to about 1/3 of her population, but WILL survive.
Now since the Iranian dictator has said many times that his goal is the total destruction of Israel, then he Will be stopped, somehow.
If everyone else fails, Israel WILL bomb Iran.
To Israel the Iranians having nukes poses an existential threat. Bibi has given 3 months for Obama's extended palm strategery to work . Any military move by Israel will drag the US into it whether we like it or not. The Iranian games include the attempt to shut down the Straits of Hormuz;attacks on US forces in Iraq , and the targeting of other Persian Gulf oil assets.
Obama's original Sept 24 deadline for talks have come and gone ,and the Iranians have responded with the revelation of additional hardened nuke site(s) and a salvo of rocket tests with the range sufficient to hit Israel ,and additional war games in the run up to the now Oct. 1 "direct talks".
Compare that to Obama's pre-talk moves. He made his Cairo address where he apologized for US shortcomings .He made a special Persian New Year address to Iran which did nothing to soften the regime's attitudes... and announced his plans for US nuclear disarmament to the world last week the day before the Iranian revelation of the additional site.
Our moves are few. They come down to unilateral and /or coalition sanctions which can only work with every other nation on board . The Iranians have read Obama as weak and Russia and China know that if they side with Obama they are siding with weakness against a nation that shows strength by openly defying the United States with the announcement and the war games/launches .
We can engage in limited attacks on their nuke sites...
Or we can further kick the can down the road ,announcing limited ineffective face saving sanctions ;eventually accepting an Iranian bomb.
We may do that ;but Israel cannot.
Hello tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
It'll start WWlll. Your LIMITED attacks ain't going to be limited for long...
But, if Israel did it, how could they be mad at us? Oh, they can be, and they will. But we'd have plausible deniability.
excon
Agree ;that's why I pointed out what the Iranians are gaming. Any attack either by us or Israel drags us into a war.Quote:
Hello tom:
It'll start WWlll. Your LIMITED attacks ain't going to be limited for long...
By the way ;when looking for things to investigate about our intel agencies ,perhaps Congress would like to find out the circumstances behind the now confirmed faulty NIE of 2007 which downplayed Iran's development program and instead argued that Iran had suspended their nuclear program since 2003 .
The NY Slimes reported that
American officials said that they had been tracking the covert project for years, but that Mr. Obama decided to disclose the American findings after Iran discovered, in recent weeks, that Western intelligence agencies had breached the secrecy surrounding the complex."http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/26/wo...e.html?_r=1&hp
If we were indeed tracking it for years then the NIE was a fraud and a deception by the intelligence agencies designed to prevent the Bush adm. From taking meaningful actions against Iran.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Do sanctions ever work?
excon
Don't know... guess I'll ask the South Africans .Quote:
Do sanctions ever work?
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