Our economy is in serious trouble, perhaps on the brink of collapse.

So how did we get here, and what is the way out of this wilderness?

No one, whether individual or nation, can long continue to spend more that his income or consume more than he produces. If he is living off his garden, he can eat no more than he raises.

What has happened here is that too many citizens of this country think that they are entitled to more than they produce. This is not saying that there are not those who, through no failure of their own, cannot produce enough to sustain them. But when a large enough percentage of the population demand more than they can produce, the national books can not be balanced. It is the equilavent of a family maxing out the credit card. They come to the end of the line, and must default on the debt.

In spite of what we might like, we simply cannot afford everything that everyone wants. Choices must be made, and we are going to have to realize that there may be things that we, as a nation, cannot afford.

It's easy to say, "the government will pay for it", but we are seeing that the government has nothing to pay with.

To get out of this situation, someone must create something. Service jobs merely move the money around, but do nothing to create any more wealth. Raw materials must be turned into products that people want and need. Our agriculture has provided a lot of wealth, but how long can it keep us afloat? Japan survives by turning raw materials into goods because that is about all it has to rely on.

This administration seems to be anti-business. If that doesn't change, then we may soon be trying to live by washing each others' socks.

When we (as a society) were fat and things were humming merrily along it was easy for government to add all sorts of new programs to "help" the underprivileged in our society. Sadly as things started going south government got fatter and lazier and refused to tighten it's collective belt. Now, we are faced with leadership that is pondering how to expand government instead of shrinking it to match their current/future predicted income. Who's fault is that? I guess we all have to take a measure of blame for that. From the basics of the Bill of Rights we have allowed our government (again collective) to get bloated to a point of bursting. History has repeated it self and now we will pay for these mistakes until our leaders get up the nerve to stand up and say enough! Even then it would take years for this mess to get back on the right track. In the mean time, because of our dependence on government a lot of people will be badly hurt. The do gooders will not allow that, so the vicious cycle will continue until the great society is no more and we are left in the same state of affairs as many of the third world countries in Africa. Maybe if we are lucky in a hundred years or so, they will discover oil in America and then we can become rich again exporting our oil to places like Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran!

Greed is the cause. A population bent on excessive consumerism and personal debt is due to pay the piper eventually. Stop trying to appear wealthy and focus on family and not comparing yourselves to others.

Who Pays Income Taxes? See Who Pays What

When you have 40% of taxes being paid by the top 1 % of the population, 70% of the taxes paid by the top 10%, the bottom 50% of taxpayors paying less than 3% of the taxes, AND polticians that just want to stay in office, you have a situation where said politician can pander to the masses, by promising more entitlements, while getting money from the top 10% and special interests.



G&P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

Our economy is in serious trouble, perhaps on the brink of collapse.

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Hello gal:

The only thing that's really different NOW, as opposed to when Obama was elected, is 8 months have passed. You're not suggesting, are you, that the mess the dufus left him has been handled, but the current mess we're in now is Obama's fault??

Nahhh, you wouldn't be saying that, cause it wouldn't be so... Now, I'm not saying that Obama FIXED it. I'm just saying it's much too soon to tell.

The fact of the matter is, our economy has been in serious trouble since 1973 when Nixon took us off the gold standard.. That allowed administrations of BOTH stripes to inflate whenever the mood struck - and it struck often... The fact that the economy hasn't totally dumped as a result of this inflation is a credit to how strong it is - not to how soft... But, the free ride can't last forever... Buy gold!

excon

Actually EC the economy has been going down hill since FDR took control, creating programs like Social Security, thereby creating the first in a long line of welfare state policies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 450donn

Actually EC the economy has been going down hill since FDR took control, creating programs like Social Security, thereby creating the first in a long line of welfare state policies.

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Hello 450:

I have a different take...

It started to go downhill when the rest of the world discovered that we were paying our workers $18.00 an hour for work they were willing to do for $.50 an hour.

excon

For once I agree with NK.

Greed taken to the national level will destroy us.

Obama promised everything to everyone to get elected, SOP for politicians. Now the real problem is that he is trying to actually deliver on those promises.

For some reason he has no concept of making outgo fit income, and I don't understand why not. He wasn't born to money like some people, has worked with and for poor people, so he should understand the principle, but dosen't seem to

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

For once I agree with NK.

Greed taken to the national level will destroy us.

Obama promised everything to everyone to get elected, SOP for politicians. Now the real problem is that he is trying to actually deliver on those promises.

For some reason he has no concept of making outgo fit income, and I don't understand why not. He wasn't born to money like some people, has worked with and for poor people, so he should understand the principle, but dosen't seem to

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I wasn't talking about politicians, I was talking about the people of the US.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I wasn't talking about politicians, I was talking about the people of the US.

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Then you miss my point.

The government is acting exactly as you describe individual citizens.

The problem is, the govt is spending OUR money for what IT wants to without any sense of responsibility to us and our offspring.

In short, if I spend too much on trinkets, I and my family suffer.

When the government does it, everybody suffers.

Except of course, those who are government wards.

But even the wards suffer eventually by losing their freedoms.

It's the same in the UK, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

There are no jobs advertized, it's not what you know ,it's who you know and when you are lucky enough to gain employment your paid minimum wages for doing 3 peoples jobs, due to the fact of skeleton staff everywhere.

If you dare to challenge the situation, your told in no uncertain terms... you know where the door is.

The government is to blame for all the monies lost due to their mistakes, so the people have to pay via taxes, i.e.. petrol is now £ 1.06 a ltr, over £5 per gallon.

Everything is up, food, medical expenses,cigarettes, parking, car tax through the roof and it's going to rise more and more, but our wages stay the same.

The government and the banks are trying to recouperate lost funds from the people to get their books in order, we have no say in the matter, when they themselves have been fiddling the accounts for years.

People claim benefits because they are better off than going to work, this says it all.
Some one said to me today whist buying yet another bottle of achohol... why should I work when I can get my rent and tax paid on benefits... I can see what they are saying... up to a point, pound for pound they have more than I have, I work full time for minimum wage.

There are to many chiefs and not enough indians, in my opinion.

Our government, needs a total clear out, get rid of the pen pushers with the made up titles that earns them thousands upon thousand s each year... plus expenses.. several more thousand.

Whist I am in full favour of helping anyone around our world, it's now got to the point where, we here in the uk need to set our house in order, to do that the government need to look at their own expenditure and act accordingly.

There is more than enough to go around this world... the sad thing is people have not learnt to share,as the saying goes...

What's yours is mine and what's mine is my own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

Our economy is in serious trouble, perhaps on the brink of collapse.

So how did we get here, and what is the way out of this wilderness?

No one, whether individual or nation, can long continue to spend more that his income or consume more than he produces. If he is living off his garden, he can eat no more than he raises.

What has happened here is that too many citizens of this country think that they are entitled to more than they produce. This is not saying that there are not those who, through no failure of their own, cannot produce enough to sustain them. But when a large enough percentage of the population demand more than they can produce, the national books can not be balanced. It is the equilavent of a family maxing out the credit card. They come to the end of the line, and must default on the debt.

In spite of what we might like, we simply cannot afford everything that everyone wants. Choices must be made, and we are going to have to realize that there may be things that we, as a nation, cannot afford.

It's easy to say, "the government will pay for it", but we are seeing that the government has nothing to pay with.

To get out of this situation, someone must create something. Service jobs merely move the money around, but do nothing to create any more wealth. Raw materials must be turned into products that people want and need. Our agriculture has provided a lot of wealth, but how long can it keep us afloat? Japan survives by turning raw materials into goods because that is about all it has to rely on.

This administration seems to be anti-business. If that doesn't change, then we may soon be trying to live by washing each others' socks.

---

Welcome to the real world. The US now has a small taste of how the rest of the world lives, but you are still insulated from the poverty of most of the world. Your agriculture doesn't just provide wealth, it feeds you and gives you that standard of living that is above many. Your industries started to go down when you thought more about profit than you did about producing wealth in your own nation. You have to sell something to have the money to buy cheap goods otherwise you are expecting other nations to pay your bill and the reality is none of us have a right to exist, we exist because we are productive.

So what's the answer. Smaller vehicles, smaller houses, smaller meals or cutting yourselves off from the cheap industries and doing the work yourselves. The real answer is using your brains and embracing the service industries. So what if you are doing each others washing? It doesn't require you to import anything to do that. My own nation was once a nation trying to protect its manufacturing industry, we gave up, realised that digging holes in the ground was better and now we have the strongest economy in the western world with a very strong service economy.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Greed is the cause. A population bent on excessive consumerism and personal debt is due to pay the piper eventually. Stop trying to appear wealthy and focus on family and not comparing yourselves to others.

---

Yeah... those greedy rich people who pay most of the taxes and give most of the charity... we should get rid of all of them.

Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more

--- Ten Years After

Yeah... that'll work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

Yeah... those greedy rich people who pay most of the taxes and give most of the charity... we should get rid of all of them.

Tax the rich, feed the poor
Till there are no rich no more

--- Ten Years After

Yeah... that'll work.

---

Wow, you love to make up stuff don't you? I wasn't talking about the rich, I was specifically talking about those who are not rich but are killing themselves to appear wealthy.

My take on the answer to to get back to what made this nation great in the first place.

I can remember when poor people were too proud to accept "charity". Now the dumb masses demand it as their "right".

As a nation we can no longer afford to support every leech in the world who is too lazy to work. What we cannot afford, we will have to learn to do without. I'm still speaking of the nation.

And so they can work, our government must compete on the world stage with a tax structure that is attractive to business.

None of these ideas fit with the plans of the leftist/Marxist people in power at the present time.

They all have to go, and soon, or we will be in the same shape that the UK is in right not.

Right now, these people are determined to tax the very air we breathe (CO2) and dictate our lifestyles.

They want to put us into golf carts, control the setting of our thermostats, and tell us what medical procedures and medicines we can have.

We have more justification to be angry than those people who dumped the tea into Boston harbor.

And our grandchildren are being taxed without representation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0rphan

It's the same in the UK, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

There are no jobs advertized, it's not what you know ,it's who you know and when you are lucky enough to gain employment your paid minimum wages for doing 3 peoples jobs, due to the fact of skeleton staff everywhere.

If you dare to challenge the situation, your told in no uncertain terms....you know where the door is.

The government is to blame for all the monies lost due to their mistakes, so the people have to pay via taxes, ie.petrol is now £ 1.06 a ltr, over £5 per gallon.

Everything is up, food, medical expenses,cigarettes, parking, car tax through the roof and it's going to rise more and more, but our wages stay the same.

The goverment and the banks are trying to recouperate lost funds from the people to get their books in order, we have no say in the matter, when they themselves have been fiddling the accounts for years.

People claim benefits because they are better off than going to work, this says it all.
Some one said to me today whist buying yet another bottle of achohol....why should i work when i can get my rent and tax paid on benefits......i can see what they are saying .....up to a point, pound for pound they have more than i have, i work full time for minimum wage.

There are to many chiefs and not enough indians, in my opinion.

Our government, needs a total clear out, get rid of the pen pushers with the made up titles that earns them thousands upon thousand s each year....plus expenses..several more thousand.

Whist i am in full favour of helping anyone around our world, it's now got to the point where, we here in the uk need to set our house in order, to do that the government need to look at their own expenditure and act accordingly.

There is more than enough to go around this world...the sad thing is people have not learnt to share,as the saying goes...

What's yours is mine and what's mine is my own.

---

When I read things like this it makes me angry. Not with you, but with government that causes situations like this.

Most of the misery in this world has been caused by governments. There are plenty of resources to meet the needs of humanity, but there are a few people in this world that see themselves as masters, and the rest of us as their subjects. Not openly, of course. That would cost them their heads. They use their wealth to manipulate governments to their own benefit.

You can bet your sweet bippy that they will not drive smart cars, shivver in the winter, or sweat in the summer. And they will not deny themselves any luxury.

No problem with that, as long as they allow others to profit by their own labors.

But when they push policies that opress the least affluent among those who work, then the Bible condemns them. It says not to grind the face of the poor.

Maybe I'm just too wound up today!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

Most of the misery in this world has been caused by governments.

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Quote:

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But when they push policies that opress the least affluent among those who work, then the Bible condemns them. It says not to grind the face of the poor.

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Government cannot make man richer,
But it can make him poorer.

--- Ludwig Von Mises


I'm all in favor of a generous vacation package for members of Congress. Any day that Congress doesn't meet to pass new laws is one in which we have not lost some of our wealth and some of our freedom. The more vacation days Congress has, the better off we are.

Elliot

Right on, Elliot.

Too bad members of Congress don't spend at least 95% of their time on vacation.

In fact, I'd like to see several of them on perpetual vacation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

Right on, Elliot.

Too bad members of Congress don't spend at least 95% of their time on vacation.

In fact, I'd like to see several of them on perpetual vacation.

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So what you are saying is you would like Obama to do what ever he wants?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paraclete

so what you are saying is you would like Obama to do what ever he wants?

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Don't jump to conclusions.

We in Texas have 2 good senators, and in my district a true conservative representative. The problem is that they are in the minority.

What I would like from Obama is his resignation or his political defeat.