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I have installed a lovely new sink and want to bypass the unatractive dishwasher disposal vent on my sink. As long as I keep my disposal and dishwasher in good working order can I bypass this plastic piece. I would like to have room for a soap dispenser on my counter top and get rid of this ugly device.
I can't recommend you remove the counter mount air-gap, as that would be very unethical of me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeyoung
The air gap is to prevent contamination of the dishwasher should the disposal or kitchen sink drain ever back up.
There are a number of very unethical plumbers who would tell you to bring the dishwasher drain hose into the cabinet base as low as possible, then loop it up as high as possible inside the cabinet base before re-connecting the drain hose to the disposal.
This is called a 'high-loop', and it worked just fine that way until some genius invented the counter mount air-gap.
As much respect as I have for Growler as a plumber this is where we disagree.
Growler sez, "I can't recommend you remove the counter mount air-gap, as that would be very unethical of me."
Well it wouldn't be "unethical" for me and here's why.
Over the years my firm has installed hundreds of diswashers in new homes and condos using a high loop, (see image) and not one, (let me repeat) NOT A SINGLE COMPLAINT have we got back from any of those installations.
He goes on to tell us that," The air gap is to prevent contamination of the dishwasher should the disposal or kitchen sink drain ever back up."
And it does a very good job of it until a chunk of food or a particle of bone gets lodged in the air gap causing the dishwasher to discharge all over the counter top and on the floor.
A high loop runs up to less then a inch of the sinks flood rim under the countertop so if the sink backed up it would have to fill up and overflow on the floor before the dishwasher saw any of it. That hasn't happened yet.
I like this statement, "There are a number of very unethical plumbers who would tell you to bring the dishwasher drain hose into the cabinet base as low as possible, then loop it up as high as possible inside the cabinet base before re-connecting the drain hose to the disposal.
This is called a 'high-loop', and it worked just fine that way until some genius invented the counter mount air-gap."
Well Growler, I have news for you. The entire West Coast of Florida must be chock-a-block full of "unethical plumbers" because that's how we have always installed our dishwashers, and still do for that matter.
And as for this declaration, " This is called a 'high-loop', and it worked just fine that way until some genius invented the counter mount air-gap."
As a young boy in Wisconsin I remember my father installing a dishwasher for my mother that had a counter top air gap. That was over 60 years ago so they're not a new item.
Do they work? Yes, they do. However a high loop works just as good, are a lot easier to install and don't clutter up your countertop.
Your choice my friend. Regards, Tom
Didn't you notice the tongue in my cheek, Tom?
I don't know Growler,
I took it seriously. Guess I'm just getting old and cranky. But I meant what I said about respecting you as a plumber. Since we work off different codes you and I will always have our separate takes on some subjects but I'll have to say that working completely across the nation from each other most of the time we're on the same page. Cheers and have yourself a great evening.
I'm logging off and kicking back. Tom
It's kind of an inside joke around here, we usually have the air-gap removed and the high loop and lotion dispenser installed before the inspector can get back into his or her car after the final inspection.
Counter top air-gaps are mandatory in your area?
Section 807.4 of the Uniform Plumbing Code states:
"No domestic dishwashing machine shall be directly connected to a drainage system or food waste disposer without the use of an approved dishwasher airgap fitting on the discharge side of the dishwashing machine. Listed airgaps shall be installed with the flood level (FL) marking at or above the flood level of the sink or drainboard, whichever is higher, or separately trapped with the airbreak located on the stand pipe."
Also, it should be noted that Florida has adopted the 2003 International Plumbing Code which states:
802.1.6 Domestic Dishwashing machines.
"Domestic dishwashing machines shall discharge indirectly through an air gap or air
break into a standpipe or waste receptor in accordance with Section 802.2, or discharge
into a wye-branch fitting on the tailpiece of the kitchen sink or the dishwasher
connection of a food waste grinder. The waste line of a domestic dishwashing machine
discharging into a kitchen sink tailpiece or food waste grinder shall connect to a deck-
mounted air gap or the waste line shall rise and be securely fasten end to the underside
of the sink rim or counter."
But then again, each authority has the option to amend any section of the adopted code as it sees fit, which is probably why you don't see airgaps required in your area.
Take Washington State for example where we have adopted the UPC, the UPC makes no specific allowances for the use of air admittance valves, while most of the local authorities have amended the code to allow for their use, there are a few hold outs who still prohibit their use, Renton would be a good example, I ran my first foot vent in over five years for an island sink, which ticked the homeowner off to no end, because the ceiling below the kitchen had to be furred down almost 8 inches to accommodate both the drain and the foot vent.
Also, there *IS* an alternative to the counter mounted airgap called a 'Johnson Tee', but it isn't always a practical or affordable option, especially when there are windows spanning the entire kitchen plumbing wall.
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