For home code compliance do all eletrical outlets within 6 feet of a water source have to be on individual GFCI's, or can they be strung togther on one GFCI. In my kitchen, all the outlets within 6 feet of the sink are strung together on one GFCI outlet, but a home inspector sited this as incorrect. I don't know if the inspector just didn't notice that they were strung together on one, or if code is each one has to be a separate GFCI. I live in Illinois.

Home inspector is wrong. Outlets must be GFI protected. One GFI outlet can protect itself and all outlets "downstream" from it. If he didn't know that he shouldn't be inspecting. If he didn't check to see it the GFI outlet was protecting the others he should have not have cited it.

We get quite a few incidents like this as a result of home inspectors.

Now what if they were protected by a GFCI breaker? See how it spells nonsense.

First of all GFCI protection is only required when the code calls for it at the time of the original home construction permit. If the home was built many years ago GFCI protection may not be required at all. A home needs only meet the code that was in place at the time of its original construction OR when a update or remodel has been made to a specific area.

Now with that being said therre is nothing wrong with GFCI protection and I can understand that some non-licensed state home inspector might recommend them to be installed for safety purposes but if the above rule is followed they cannot demand they be installed if the code did not require it durning the initial construction or remodel.

BTW the NEC has for sometime requires two separate kitchen circuits so he might be looking at it from that perspective. The codes are always evolving and the NEC changes every three years so this leads to some confusion especially among home inspectors who just a short time ago might have been a automobile mechanic and all they know about construction and electric is what they read out of a book or heard from one of there other home inspection buddys. I have been called into court on a few occasions to clairfy exactly what the rules are regarding the codes and exactly when the codes apply. My code compliance manuals go back to 1934 so the old codes can be recited in court to settle the argument.

Home inspectors have caused millions of dollars to be spent each year by home owners to upgrade there homes for the next buyer when in all actuality they did not need to do the repairs to start with. Most cases are are judged for the original home owner and the home inspector is forced to pay for all sales delays and cost associated with there shenanigan.

Home inspectors have there place but they need to stay in there place and not wonder about giving false information.

Feeding a string of GFCI is OK and GFCI's are a requirement of code minimum standards

I am an electrical engineer, Licensed master electrician in Illinois, Licensed Home inspector, Certified MIES (mold, radon, IAQ),Certified Professional Witness, Certified Code Official in Electrical, HVAC, General home, Code review, and commercial inspection.

The code is very specific on minimum standards making our alleged HVAC expert questionable

The following is from the 2009 IPMC and it does require GFCI in all locations this means it is a code requirement. Please read the following

SECTION 601
GENERAL
601.1 Scope.
The provisions of this chapter shall govern the
Minimum mechanical and electrical facilities and equipment to
Be provided.


Minimum performance guidelines for mechanical and
Electrical facilities and equipment are established in
This chapter. Installations that do not conform to these
Minimum criteria are unacceptable.

601.2 Responsibility.
The owner of the structure shall provide
And maintain mechanical and electrical facilities and equipment
In compliance with these requirements. A person shall
Not occupy as owner-occupant or permit another person to
Occupy any premises which does not comply with the requirements
Of this chapter.


It is the responsibility of the owner of the structure to
Provide and maintain the required electrical and mechanical
Facilities. An owner must not occupy or allow
Any other person to occupy a structure that is not in
Compliance with this chapter; thus, the requirements of
This chapter are the minimum necessary to make a

Structure occupiable.



And

604.3 Electrical system hazards. Where it is found that the
Electrical system in a structure constitutes a hazard to the occupants
Or the structure by reason of inadequate service,
Improper fusing, insufficient receptacle and lighting outlets,
Improper wiring or installation, deterioration or damage, or for
Similar reasons, the code official shall require the defects to be
Corrected to eliminate the hazard.
Any electrical system deficiency or condition that is
Deemed hazardous to the occupants or to the structure
Must be abated to eliminate the hazard. Electrical
System hazards include, but are not limited to, the
Following:
 Inadequate (undersized) service;
 Improper fusing and overcurrent protection;
 Insufficient receptacle distribution;
 Lack of sufficient lighting fixtures;
 Deteriorated, damaged, worn or otherwise defective
Wiring, equipment and appliances;
 Improperly installed or protected wiring methods;
 Lack of proper service or equipment grounding;
 Open splices in wiring;
 Inadequately supported devices, wiring or
Equipment;
 Any exposed conductors or components constituting
A shock hazard;
 Missing or damaged device cover plates;
 Excessive use of extension cords;
 Overloaded receptacles or circuitry; and
 Lack of ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI)
Protection.
The most commonly encountered hazard is improper
Overcurrent protection of conductors. Fuses
And circuit breakers are devices designed to limit current
Flow to the maximum safe current-carrying capacity
(ampacity) of a conductor. With rare exception, the
Conductor's current-carrying capacity (ampacity)
Must be greater than or at least equal to the ampere
Rating of the overcurrent device that supplies it. If a
Fuse or circuit breaker has a larger ampere-rating capacity
Than the conductors it is intended to protect, the
Device will permit the conductors to carry currents in
Excess of the conductors' capacity. The resultant
Overload will cause conductor heating, insulation deterioration
And, possibly, a fire. The typical scenario is
The occupant who thinks he or she has “cured” a fuseblowing
Problem by substituting fuses that are larger
In size. This appears to alleviate the problem for the
Occupant but, in actuality, an extreme fire hazard has
Been created by eliminating the circuit conductor
Overcurrent protection.

This is considered a minimum standard for occupancy

HVAC 1000 has a myopic view of home safety and building codes. While it is true that Home Inspectors point out deficiencies based on current standards, they are in a position to make recommendations for a safe house based on modern safety standards. They can not compel a seller or a buyer to make updates. The 60's are that didn't have seat belts wouldn't be acceptable today.

Local municipal building departments can and do make homeowners doing remodeling to build to the building code requirement in place at the time of the new construction. Building permits requiring electrical or gas work may require that the subject system be upgraded. A new kitchen will likely require GFCI outlets, number of outlets, number of circuits, etc to match the current code.

HVAC 1000's first and last paragraph isn't supported by his own statements. In summary, he/she says that Home Inspectors can compel updates. WRONG, we recommend. It is up to the buyer to decide what to ask the seller to repair. HAVC 1000's statement that he has manual's that go back over 75 years to PROVE that this his point is grandfathered is just plain silly. How wants to buy a house that hasn't been updated in 80 years?? Does his Model T Ford still have a hand starter crank?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don Burbach

HVAC 1000 has a myopic view of home safety and building codes. While it is true that Home Inspectors point out deficiencies based on current standards, they are in a position to make recommendations for a safe house based on modern safety standards. They can not compel a seller or a buyer to make updates. The 60's are that didn't have seat belts wouldn't be acceptable today.

Local municipal building departments can and do make homeowners doing remodeling to build to the building code requirement in place at the time of the new construction. Building permits requiring electrical or gas work may require that the subject system be upgraded. A new kitchen will likely require GFCI outlets, number of outlets, number of circuits, etc to match the current code.

HVAC 1000's first and last paragraph isn't supported by his own statements. In summary, he/she says that Home Inspectors can compel updates. WRONG, we recommend. It is up to the buyer to decide what to ask the seller to repair. HAVC 1000's statement that he has manual's that go back over 75 years to PROVE that this his point is grandfathered is just plain silly. How wants to buy a house that hasn't been updated in 80 years? Does his Model T Ford still have a hand starter crank?

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Where does it say compel?

Home inspectors write down the info on what we call a beat up sheet (to beat up the current home owner and prove to the person who purchased the inspection that they are getting there moneys worth) and turn that in to who ever paid them to do the inspection. Then the home owner has to spend the $$$ to get the house deal closed in a timely fashion.

Further more NO Code in my area calls for anything to be changed in a structure UNLESS the structure has been changed/modified since it was built. Example you cannot force a seller to install a hard wired tied together smoke detector system the later codes require in a older home unless you are remodeling.

I thought code was 2 recepticles on a circuit in the Kitchen.
Using a GFI on the Load side of another is a waste of money. If you have 2 or more recepticles on GFI's Just connect each on the Line side, so if one trips, it doesn't take another recpticle with it.
What ever code is now in Kitchens, 2 recepticles are the most I will have on a circuit?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stratmando

I thought code was 2 recepticles on a circuit in the Kitchen.
Using a GFI on the Load side of another is a waste of money. If you have 2 or more recepticles on GFI's Just connect each on the Line side, so if one trips, it doesn't take another recpticle with it.
What ever code is now in Kitchens, 2 recepticles are the most I will have on a circuit?

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I agree two receptacles is the most I would want also want on a circuit. The reason I have is the fact that so many folks are using many counter top electric toys for cooking and many of those draw quite a bit of current. The code changes faster than I can keep up with it. When I was a inspector for the state I had to keep up with code changes and some inspectors would actually make up a cheat sheet/punch list on every code change so they would not miss anything on inspections. My inspections were done on a on call basis so I did not inspect every day since most were of the large commercial type like power plants. Note I did not have to inspect Power Generation at the plants but had to inspect all alarms,Suppression systems, and outlets and panels along with all the devices for power consumption on the premises. I have never met anyone who knew everything about electric especially me.

In small Kitchens needing a lot, I will sometimes have, each of the 4 recepticles in a quad, so each could handle 20 amps, You could not trip a breaker, unless a problem.