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So sometimes from the pole, you have your 2 hotts and 1 neutral, however sometimes you have 2 hotts and a ground and no neutral,
So here's what I'm doing in a few days, taking a 200 amp panel putting in a 100 amp breaker going underground with it, than poping back up and splicing in a 100 amp sub panel... now do I run my 2 2awg alum and a #6 ground or do I just take all 3 #2 alums 2 hotts and 1 neutral and than put a ground plate over at the panel ? Thanks :)
You are really starting to scare me. An overhead drop consists of two 2 hot wires ("Ungrounded" conductors) and one "Neutral" wire. Neutral is also called the "Grounded" conductor. Its purpose is to provide the return path for the electricity. It is grounded to the earth at the transformer.
My suggestion is that you call a licensed electrician. You are trivializing this task to the point of being dangerous. Or are you just trying to be "folksy" in your description.
Neutral and Ground are two very different things and provide very different services.
1) What type of Insulated Al. cable are you using?
2) Distance from main panel to sub panel not given.
3) It does not appear to me that you have any plan on how you are going to distribute this 100 amps from the subpanel to the branch circuits (according to TK this is critical since we do not know that the 100 Amps is adequate)
4) Voltage unspecified - 120 only, 240 only 120/240?
You must use a four wire feeder (three conductor and one ground for 120/240 VAC feed) cable from the main panel to the sub.
5) The Neutral Feed wire must be isolated from the grounding bus bar at the subpanel.
6) Ground rod(s) and a EGC must be installed at the subpanel.
I think that what onamission1 is seeing is the bare neutral which comes from the pole and thinking it's a ground. That's the only place you'll see a bare neutral... from the pole to the entrance head.
I don't know where you live, but when we do a service in canada we have 2 black wires hotts if you didn't know that and a white wire... a neutral.. with USB R4 wire (which is the direct bury I will be using) you have 2 hotts alum wire and a #6 neutral bare wrapped around the alum wires. My question is "why is the neutral insulated and sometime's it isn't, Sorry Don you just didn't get my question at all... I wasn't really asking about the job nor your advice it was a simple question.. Since your not an electrician you shouldn't get in over your head on the advice aspect. Sorry I scared you
I'll bite.
Overhed the bear is doing wire support and ligtning protection.
Underground it is not.
And as Don stated. Four wires are needed after the 1st disconnect wherever that may be in the US.
Onamission;
I hope you do not think I am afraid of electricity. I am not. However I do have an extremley defined respect for electricity. Electricity, it's properties and power do not scare me. You do!
Sorry if I misread your question and while I am not a licensed electrician, as you so equivalently state, I do know what is supplied by the overhead drops here in the U.S.. On the underground fan outs that I've worked with, blocks of three wires are used here, not four. I do not know the chemical properties of the insulation of the service drop cables, but I can get that easily enough if I needed to. Drop cables are selected for use by the accountant that has the sharpest pencil and can get the best price. Also, whether a Neutral is insulated or not can be a supply statement.
I also know that what is on the pole belongs to the utility company not the electrician. That's in my area, which is a city. And that I am only speaking on "Residential" requirements, not commercial. And that the utility company does not follow the NEC, but I guess I'm to dumb to understand how things are accomplished in Canada. Oh, wait a minute, doesn't Canada use the same type of power distribution as the U.S.
I also know that the Neutral can be either insulated or bare. And that if it is insulated the covering will most likely be black with the White or Gray applied to the sheath at the main panel. Or black with a green stripe.
I also know that some times the lines will be wrapped (we used to call it "Frapping" when I was in the U.S. Navy) for strength purposes, but that is rarely done in my area now. Usually its just a lazy twist.
Oh and by the way, I also know what is carried on the lines and how it is derived from the pots on the poles.
I've been up poles, albeit for telephone problems thousands of times, how about you?
I also know how to run a feeder from my main panel to a sub panel without being insulting. How good are your communications skills?
Don Don.. I ask questions on here so that I can study the job I am about to be doing since I am a electrician.. 4th year I ask silly questions like why is the neutral insulated and sometimes not because I want to know every aspect of my job! I don't spend hours on this site to describe every detail of a job I will be doing because I don't care enough, I do however work with J-man's and masters everyday so if I have questions important enough I will ask them. However I do commercial and I recently switched to residential I noticed main panels with insulated and bare neutrals, ( I tend to refer to a bare wire as a ground... ) saying I scares you just makes you seem like a :)
What's even more worrisome is that you are four years into the trade and you don't know how to feed a subpanel. (Or the correct name and purpose for the Neutral conductor)
Seriously, do you use the International version of the NEC in Canada or the U.S. version?
You err in just calling the bare conductor, ground. It is not that at all. It is the center tap on the transformer (Neutral point) that allows you to provide 120/240 VAC to a residence.
It is the "Return Path" for the electrical circuit from the utility company's pole to the residence.
Hots are referred to as the "Ungrounded" conductors and Neutral is referred to as the "Grounded" conductor.
"Ground" is a totally different system. It is designed to carry transient spikes away from the residence and safely diffuse them to the ground provided by the earth. Also, it allows the panel a quick high amp discharge point in case a fault occurs that will cause the OCPD to open and safely kill the circuit.
Regardless of whether the "Grounded" conductor is insulated or not, it serves the same purpose.
Is electrical wiring all that different in Canada?
Yey Great answer I was looking for something that in depth... yea I've been in the trade for 4 years, unfortunately never had a chance to go to school until this October, so my theory is terrible. Its always bart grab that 3 wire and pull it there terminate this and that and the other thing. I don't know how different the states is however alberta (which is where I live) has the best apprentice program in America but extremely hard to get into :) anyway
Do you have book stores or libraries in Alberta? Does the school system run Any adult ed. Courses. Aren't there any trade schools? :)
There are several study guides published that conform to the 2008 NEC. Also there are the NEC publications themselves. The NEC Handbook is an in depth look at the code with explanations.
My thought exactly.
After four years you would think some reading could have been done.Quote:
Originally Posted by donf
The Canadian codes can be found here:
Standards | CSA
You could have been reading everything you can find while working in the trade but before school. Code books, text books, trade magazines, even product catalogs can be helpful.
You will discover that a neutral feeder can be bare feeding a Main Breaker. No separate ground is needed. This is why you can see a bare wire in the aerial cable from a pole to a house.
After the Main, then a neutral must be insulated and a grounding conductor is needed, which can be bare or insulated.
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