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In Matthew 19:28 (KJV), "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
Judas was one of the twelve at the time Jesus said this. Will Judas be sitting on a throne?
At the time this was said Judas was still one of the group and had the choice not to act as he did. Judas disqualified himself by his actions. Jesus had chosen twelve apostles as symbolic and representative of the twelve tribes. You will recall also that the apostles later chose a replacement for Judas to maintain the group at its original number and that the person chosen was a follower though not one of the original groupQuote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Periphial issues such as this would be what would have greatly concerned the pharassees but we know God to be just
If you review what is written and go beyond to understand what Jesus was saying, that whoever serves HIM in their agreement of labor, many being first shall be last and the last shall be first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
The next chapter(20) explains, as a household, when they being labourers in agreement some doing no wrong, and yet when the time of payment came, the agreement remained the some for all. One that felt he did no wrong asked, why he would be given the same. Jesus told him why..
Matthew 20:13-14But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
So in the end it will be Jesus that will do what is agreed upon from the beginning and to whom HE calls HIS own. Should we look upon another to judge them and call them less or
evil, then that one could be considered evil himself for doing so?
Matthew 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Also who among any, did no wrong during their own agreement? Were each of the disciples perfect at all times? Don't we all need the mercy and grace of God
Judas rejected Jesus' promise and blessing and prefared 30 pieces of silver like Esau.
There is no throne for Judas.He rejected Jesus and Jesus rejected him.
According to the Gospel of Judas,Jesus asked him to betray him fulfilling the prophecy of his crucification.
If not for the betrayal,the redemption of man would never have happened.
I am no scholar.I have more questions than answers but if he helped to fulfill the prophecy he would be worthy of atonement.
Just a thought.
This thought is not accurate.Please think of Hitler.Because of him the Israelites were brought back to their land.Does this make Hitler worthy of any atonement?Quote:
Originally Posted by artlady
God can turn something bad into good but that does not mean that he who caused something bad will be worthy because God eventually will turn the bad thing into good.
It is a philosophical line of thought. It has nothing to do with accuracy.Have you read "The gospel of Judas"? If not for Judas and the fulfillment of the prophecy there would have been no crucification,no salvation for mankind.Quote:
Originally Posted by adam7gur
Let's say that there is a prophecy about my son saying that someone will kill him and that after this he will live with God forever.Am I to glorify my son's killer?Quote:
Originally Posted by artlady
If we are talking about salvation for all men throughout eternity ,then I think the end would justify the means.Quote:
Originally Posted by adam7gur
According to the Gnostic Bible Jesus asked for Judas to betray him.
I'm not into debating anything,just providing a point of view.
No debate here either, just pointing out how I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by artlady
Thank you for your time!
The Gospel of Judas is not canon, not even contemporary with the Gospels so it is pure conjecture. The betrayal was prophesied, but irrespective Jesus would have died because the Jews were already plotting his death. Jesus knew what was in Judas heart, he made no attempt to stop him. Judas ultimately died in despair and suicided so perhaps he might not be worthy of atonement unless; like the rest of us he repented of all his sins before death and, of course, we cannot know.Quote:
Originally Posted by artlady
I prefer not to depart from the Gospels and therefore get into lines of thought long disguarded by those somewhat closer to the facts
My pleasure thank-you !Quote:
Originally Posted by adam7gur
Bible facts? Is that what you are referencing?Quote:
I prefer not to depart from the Gospels and therefore get into lines of thought long disguarded by those somewhat closer to the facts
Theologians are reviewing the Gnostic Bible as we speak and the Vatican is reviewing them as well.
Not that there will likely be a change but because something is not widely accepted(canon) in one generation,it is no indication that the next will not embrace it.
Change is constant and even the hierarchy of the church can't stop it.
Opinion and truth are not the same. Everyone has an opinion but not everyone is right.
The basic idea behind Scripture is that it is revealed truth and is useful for instruction, etc, therefore we don't seek to have it constantly changed blown by the winds of opinion and fashion
How do you know what is truth?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Now that is the classic question, also found in Scripture. Pilate asked the same question of Jesus Christ before he executed him. He knew the truth that Jesus was innocent but he executed him none the less.
We are fortunate that we have been given the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. That is a truth found in Scripture, but in order to benefit we must be willing to be led and not to lean on our own understanding, that is, not to be blown around by opinion and human wisdom. Since you are asking what is truth I expect you have a little way to go yet but you won't get there if you take on every theory and listen to those who don't have revelation
I have had a very religious background so your assumption that I have a way to go is erroneous at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
I am 55 and I have been raised strict Catholic.
I believe my Lord wants and encourages my questions.
I look at the Bible as a book of Laws to control people and understand that it was written as a law book for that very purpose.
Because back in the day there was no separation of church and state,they were one in the same.
I don't like religious debate at all.
I think we all need to find our peace with our higher power ,however that may be.
So,All Gods Love to you,, I'm out :)
The truth is that religion will kill you. Christianity is about relationship, another truth, I hope your religious background has taught you that.Quote:
Originally Posted by artlady
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