First off I would like to say hi to everyone, as this is my first post on this website.


Lately I have been very confused about religion and what to believe in due to personal circumstances and current / historical events.

I'm hoping to gain some knowledge that will help me determine what to believe in if to believe in anything at all. So here it goes;

Firstly, I don't see how all religions can be correct? There are so many conflicting views that have led to so much suffering, war, destruction, hatred and such. Wouldn't the world be a better place without religion? I don't see how you need a set of rules from the likes of the 10 commandments to live a good, kind life helping others and not committing murder etc. Isn't that pre-programmed in human nature?
On the other hand I see how religion can be beneficial to people, such as; dealing with the death of loved ones, the afterlife, hope / faith etc.

Secondly, if god is the creator of everything then who created the creator? Surely this is a rhetorical question that can never be answered as no one currently has the knowledge to answer this. So why and how can so many people base their beliefs and lives on something that is flawed from the start? (flawed-maybe not the correct word). If god created everything then surely something must have created god? If not then isn't it plausible to believe that the universe has always been here in the way that god must have always been there to not have something create it?

Thirdly and finally if god created man then why are there massive nebula's, colliding stars, supernova's, gas clusters hundreds of light years wide that would have absolutely zero influence on life on earth (that god created). If it wasn't for technology advancements, we would never have seen them, so why are they there? To me it just doesn't make any sense at all?

I was brought up Christian, went to church on Sunday etc but since growing up have come to think for myself and ask questions. I'd like to believe that there is something after life on this planet and I do think that everything had to of started from something but nothing can be proved?

I apologies for the length of the post and also the fact that there is a lot of questions. These are just my current thoughts and would be very grateful if anyone had any comments.

Thanks for your time,
:)

For my sanity sake I threw religion out the door and looked for God in the Bible and heart to heart prayer.

You being brought up Christian most likely have a basic understanding of the Bible and basic truths. Now build on the basic foundation of your faith.

Feel free to ask questions and we will try and help.
You will get a lot of differing replies on here but what I do is listen to everything. Figure out what makes sense and throw away the bones.
If you aren't sure about something file it away for later when you can make sense of it.

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate your time

Hi I can understand your confusion if you just look at the various belief systems from a religious perspective. Religion will kill you,there are ample examples of this in the world. However, you say you were raised a Christian, so was I, but no one took the trouble to introduce me to Jesus and tell me that Christianity was about relationship. A relationship between Jesus and the believer that doesn't need any intermediatry.

What you have to get clear is that most of the world's religions existed before Jesus and if they had been right and working to bring people to God, there would have been no need for Jesus, but there was and that need had existed from the beginning. The death of Jesus was the pivotal point in history.

So as sapph has said, you have the basics, start to look for that which will cause you to grow spiritually, study the Bible and get some good commentaries and above all commit yourself to Jesus and see what he will do. Seek him and the Holy Spirit and you will come to understand and if I can help you let me know

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Originally Posted by ijustdontknow

First off I would like to say hi to everyone, as this is my first post on this website.


Lately I have been very confused about religion and what to believe in due to personal circumstances and current / historical events.

I'm hoping to gain some knowledge that will help me determine what to believe in if to believe in anything at all. So here it goes;

Firstly, I don't see how all religions can be correct?. There are so many conflicting views that have led to so much suffering, war, destruction, hatred and such. Wouldn't the world be a better place without religion? I don't see how you need a set of rules from the likes of the 10 commandments to live a good, kind life helping others and not committing murder etc. Isn't that pre-programmed in human nature?
On the other hand I see how religion can be beneficial to people, such as; dealing with the death of loved ones, the afterlife, hope / faith etc.

Secondly, if god is the creator of everything then who created the creator? Surely this is a rhetorical question that can never be answered as no one currently has the knowledge to answer this. So why and how can so many people base their beliefs and lives on something that is flawed from the start? (flawed-maybe not the correct word). If god created everything then surely something must have created god? If not then isn't it plausible to believe that the universe has always been here in the way that god must have always been there to not have something create it?

Thirdly and finally if god created man then why are there massive nebula's, colliding stars, supernova's, gas clusters hundreds of light years wide that would have absolutely zero influence on life on earth (that god created). If it wasn't for technology advancements, we would never have seen them, so why are they there? To me it just doesn't make any sense at all?

I was brought up Christian, went to church on Sunday etc but since growing up have come to think for myself and ask questions. I'd like to believe that there is something after life on this planet and I do think that everything had to of started from something but nothing can be proved?

I apologies for the length of the post and also the fact that there is a lot of questions. These are just my current thoughts and would be very grateful if anyone had any comments.

Thanks for your time,
:)

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1] I don't see how all can be correct either. Regardless the key is respect and love. Someone can believe in some other god or no god at all, I can't force them to think the way I do and vice versa, so we have to respect the difference although we can talk abd discuss the differences. Also a lot of humans USE religion for political gain.

2] is philosophical so I won't comment

3] there is so much wonder in the universe, even more so in each of our individual cells. To think that this is all due to some random chemical events really takes more faith than believing that there is a God.


What is even more amzing is the fact that God loves us so much as to have Jesus Christ die and resurrect for our sins :D



ask any question






G&P

Thanks very much for your comments!
I have taken some points on board and would again like to thank you for taking time in reading and replying to this thread :)

I forgot to post as well that after researching different ideologies and such I think I would be happy being classed as an 'Agnostic Theist'. I believe that there is some form of god but I personally cannot commit myself to one such as Christianity as there is just no hard proof that it is real (or any other religion for that matter). All thought I must admit I do like Christianity over all other religions due to its kind, loving views (compared to some religions which I will not state).



One last question;

Due to me not being a Christian, does this mean that if hell is real, I am going there for not believing? Or will god forgive me because I am a genuine person who will help anyone that I can and will never cause intentional harm to anyone? The reason I ask this is because I really am 50/50 on the subject of god but am seeing it from a logical view. Present me the evidence and I will believe

Thanks again,

You can make the move to agnosticism. Live you life by the golden rule, be good to yourself as well. That's all you need. :)

Thanks Karma,

I just got an email about your post just as I posted mine regarding agnosticism.

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Originally Posted by ijustdontknow

One last question;

Due to me not being a Christian, does this mean that if hell is real, I am going there for not believing? or will god forgive me because I am a genuine person who will help anyone that I can and will never cause intentional harm to anyone? The reason I ask this is because I really am 50/50 on the subject of god but am seeing it from a logical view. Present me the evidence and I will believe

Thanks again,

---

You cannot have an each way bet on this, you either believe or you don't. Let me assure you God is real and an active force in this world. If your life experience hasn't confirmed that yet it doesn't mean he doesn't exist. God took the trouble to reveal himself through Jesus Christ because the people just hadn't got it. The religious system just didn't work. God will not forgive you once you are dead, you cannot ignore him all your life and then rock up to judgement expecting to be pardoned for your ignorance. You have been told he is real, you have obviously had some instruction so it comes down to your response and the response you make is to believe in Jesus and believe that he has risen and to make that response public while asking that God forgive you for any transgression in the past. Ask God to give you the faith to believe

Don't let human logic fool you, millions of people throughout the last two thousand years are not wrong. Some of their responses may have been ill conceived but the underlying belief in the redemptive sacrifice of Jesus Christ is what is important. For the Skeptic I suggest reading Josh McDowell's "Evidence that demands a verdict" or Lee Scobal's "the case for Christ"

And just to make sure you understand, being well intentioned doesn't get you over the line, being good in your own eyes doesn't get you over the line. Scripture says, all have fallen short, but, God has provided a way out. It doesn't meet human standards of logic but God is in charge.

If you will permit me I will pray for you that the Holy Spirit will reveal Jesus to you.

Hi,

If it was not for technological developments we may have not seen the universe as we know it, but it is there none the less.Something beyond our solar system exists, and most of us have not seen it,but we believe it exists because the experts of this field have searched and researched into it and told us that it does exist.

It makes sense that it exists because they have a purpose in the universe, we may never know the reasons.
From what we know all systems depend on one another.Like the basic cycle of life, that one organism's existence serves the purpose of being food for another organism and if you take one organism away from the equation it affects the rest of the cycle,which in turn effects the larger eco system.The same way I believe the existence of all the bodies of the universe has a purpose.
I don't know my way around science to explain it well,but what I do know is that when all these systems are so intricately balanced and connected to one another, it makes it hard for me not to believe in a Creator.

Now comes the question of why wars and destruction exist;
humankind will always have their good and bad sides,and wars will exist as long as humans exist because not all humans are alike and even those that follow religions make interpretations of their own to excuse their behavior using the very texts that forbid them from evil.

When you think of God in human terms,having human attributes,that's where it becomes hard to believe that the evil in this world is not stopped.The Creator I believe in not human in anyway, and the world we live in is destructible and it is in our hands to preserve some of it by our actions or in-actions.
My beliefs tell me that everything in this world is a test of our faith, that poor and rich exist because it is a test of our sense of charity and open handedness when it comes to sharing our wealth.
That death is a test for those alive, how we cope with it, without causing harm to ourselves or others.That life is a test for those who have good things or bad things happening to them, a test of perseverance and patience and how much we acknowledge the Creator in times of hardship as well as bliss.
That children are a test for the parents, how we take care of this gift.

Humans have the basic sense of what is wrong and what is right,but we also have a conscience and we are not programmed to do right without first making the choice to do right. And we choose the things we do whether right or wrong.
Personally for me I am a generally good person who will not harm another knowingly, but my faith and belief strengthens these very same traits by giving it direction.

This is my belief;
Now comes the question of religions and this is where I believe it has been the same belief and the same faith from the beginning until now. The same Creator has always existed, books were revealed to different nations at different times, each of these books were for a specific time and when the time passed and a new book was revealed the followers of the old book rejects the new book and keep on following their own interpretations.

And yes I do believe in Adam (alaihi salaam) being the first man, I also believe in all the Prophets and Messengers including Moses (Moosa alaihi salaam) and Jesus (Easa alahi salaam). I believe in monotheism,I believe in heaven and hell and an afterlife where we will be presented with what we did in our lifetime and judged according to our choices.

Apologies for the length of this post but this is only a bit of what I wanted to say.

I realize you are an agnostic in your views,but if you are looking into religion I will look deeper and look at the very beginning from the basics of all religons.

Thanks for the post firmbeliever, excellent stuff.

Paraclete, also thanks for your post. The original reason for my questioning religion etc is that my Grandad has just been confirmed with dementia, he is losing his mind and will eventually need to be cared for 100% of the time. Surely if his dementia effects his memory and he has no recollection of religion and believing in god, surely he is going to be punished for not believing in god?

My reason for being 50/50 again is that you cannot prove 100% that god exists, no-one can until god reveals again in modern day (if it happens). Everyone believed the world was flat until proven otherwise, just because people believe in god doesn't guarantee it. There is such a vast universe out there that I am open minded to their being a god but until its proven to me I remain in between.

I respect nature and everything around us and appreciate very much for being here. A god that punishes people by letting them burn in hell for eternity for not believing in him is something that would actually push me away from being religious. Does no-one else think this is savage and extremely selfish?

I will defiantly be checking out those 2 books you recommended! In fact I have just found out an 'Evidence that demands a verdict' video on YouTube, so will be watching this tonight and who knows maybe it will throw my thought in a different direction?

Cheers,

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Originally Posted by ijustdontknow

Thanks for the post firmbeliever, excellent stuff.

The original reason for my questioning religion etc is that my Grandad has just been confirmed with dementia, he is loosing his mind and will eventually need to be cared for 100% of the time. Surely if his dementia effects his memory and he has no recollection of religion and believing in god, surely he is going to be punished for not believing in god?


Cheers,

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You're welcome.

If your Grandad loses his mind for any reason, he is not responsible for the choices he makes.
As far as my beliefs go, the Creator I believe in releases them from the obligation of belief that those who are not sane are not responsible for believing in the Almighty or following the belief/faith.

I like your thoughts and beliefs firmbeliever, thanks for the post

If your grandfather was a believing Christian before dementia set it, his faith will sustain him. God is both just and merciful. I have known a christian who was severely injured in a road accident who was unconscious but who could be heard praying in tongues. Understand we have both a mind and a spirit and it is the spirit that is important and eternal
I took a look at the first of those YouTube segments, If you persist you will get the essence of McDowell's work but I do suggest you read the book. Mcdowell was agnostic too before he completed his research

ijustdontknow---

You and I are in the same boat. I'm also agnostic, and have been for a while. Raised Catholic. I posted something similar on here a couple of days ago, w/o even seeing this question. My focus was more on Christianity, as it is the religion I was raised in, am most familiar with, and spend the most time researching and learning about. I am not Christian- I just enjoy learning about religion in general, and my exposure thus far has mainly been to Christianity.

I have a hard time believing in things that cannot be proven. I do not know if people are intuitively good (if they are, where does evil come from? Does evil exist? Are things good/bad or is everything relative to the situation and the perspective from which it is viewed?)--- I do not know if there is an afterlife (and if there is, I do not know what it is like, and doubt I ever wil)--- I do not know why those who believe god is good also believe that evil exists in the world- if God is so good, and god created everything "in his image and likeness", what is the origin of evil?--- I do not think that a loving God would test people who try to follow him/her (testing someone & love don't seem to mesh in my mind)--- I do not know that god, if he/she/it exists, is "loving" or "good"--- he/she/it could be a supremely evil force, right?

I feel like I don't know much about any of this, but I would like to. I feel like it could be reasoned out and an answer could be found (or I could at least be closer to finding one) if all of these questions were organized properly, and I'm trying to sort through this on my own... if you want to collaborate on trying to figure things out and bounce ideas off each other, let me know.

Just try not to let it consume you too much. I do from time to time, and it's not good for you. These are HUGE questions... it can get really confusing and overwhelming trying to sort it out. Every question leads to 25 more. You're sincerely trying to figure things out, and not blindly trusting in something. I think that's the perfect way to do it. If there is a god, and this god is as good as everyone says, I don't think he/she would be so opposed to you trying to really get a good handle on things and not just believe because you've been told the "truth". You have the ability to think--- and if there is a god, and god created everything and made all things as they are, then he/she gave you a mind and the freedom and ability to USE it. So that you could come to understand whatever the "truth" is, in your own way and your own time.

And I really have a hard time believing that you'd be sent to hell for that. So don't stress it. Just respect yourself, respect other people, and keep working at figuring out your own answers and your own way of understanding whatever is out there, if anything.

Good luck!

How about Taoism? Did you try that religion?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ijustdontknow

First off I would like to say hi to everyone, as this is my first post on this website.


Lately I have been very confused about religion and what to believe in due to personal circumstances and current / historical events.

I'm hoping to gain some knowledge that will help me determine what to believe in if to believe in anything at all. So here it goes;

Firstly, I don't see how all religions can be correct?. There are so many conflicting views that have led to so much suffering, war, destruction, hatred and such. Wouldn't the world be a better place without religion? I don't see how you need a set of rules from the likes of the 10 commandments to live a good, kind life helping others and not committing murder etc. Isn't that pre-programmed in human nature?
On the other hand I see how religion can be beneficial to people, such as; dealing with the death of loved ones, the afterlife, hope / faith etc.

Secondly, if god is the creator of everything then who created the creator? Surely this is a rhetorical question that can never be answered as no one currently has the knowledge to answer this. So why and how can so many people base their beliefs and lives on something that is flawed from the start? (flawed-maybe not the correct word). If god created everything then surely something must have created god? If not then isn't it plausible to believe that the universe has always been here in the way that god must have always been there to not have something create it?

Thirdly and finally if god created man then why are there massive nebula's, colliding stars, supernova's, gas clusters hundreds of light years wide that would have absolutely zero influence on life on earth (that god created). If it wasn't for technology advancements, we would never have seen them, so why are they there? To me it just doesn't make any sense at all?

I was brought up Christian, went to church on Sunday etc but since growing up have come to think for myself and ask questions. I'd like to believe that there is something after life on this planet and I do think that everything had to of started from something but nothing can be proved?

I apologies for the length of the post and also the fact that there is a lot of questions. These are just my current thoughts and would be very grateful if anyone had any comments.

Thanks for your time,
:)

---

I agree with Bertrand Russell who said, "I don't accept any religion because I find no reason to believe any religion to be true." Not only is there no reason to believe any religion to be true, there is no reason to believe that a god exists. None. Not only that, religions, all of them, are harmful to mankind. So the sooner we are rid of them the better.

You are wise in your doubt and suspicions. Trust your instinct. Don't put your trust in some make-believe god ignorant and evil-minded Middle Eastern sheepherders who believed the earth was flat 2000 years ago invented to enslave mankind, subjugate women and terrorize gay people.

Hi ijustdontknow,

I think most things have been covered already, so I won't go into a lengthy post, only to say...

If you take away all the religious books of all faiths for a moment and just look around you...

This world didn't just happen, the beauty of everything in sometimes the finest detail... look at a rose opening in slow motion.

Every living creature here for a purpose, everything provided for us... food, warmth,light,animals.. whether it be for transport or for it's skin or food, we are provided for admirably.

It's very difficult to put into words what I am trying to say,only that you know deep in your heart that you are not alone and if you genuinly needed help, and asked at your time of need you would be answered... not perhaps always in a way you would expect or recognise but eventually all would become clear.

Look at the natural world and not the materialistic covering.

Blessings