I am replacing a Briggs and Stratton 18 HP V-Twin engine from a Simplicity LandLord lawn tractor. I am at a point where it appears the muffler will need to be removed before the engine can be removed. The nuts are pretty rusted and difficult to get to with the engine installed but I don't see any way to remove the engine while the muffler is still attached. Do I need to remove the muffler before I can remove the engine? Also, if there are any suggestions for removing the pulleys from the engine I am all ears. Thanks for your time...

Geoff

Hi,
I am afraid I cannot faithfully answer that as I have not pulled one of those engines from a Simplicity. Deere uses that engine and the exhaust pipes on the engine extend about two inches into the muffler. You simply disconnect the electrical and fuel, take out the four engine mount bolts and lift out the engine with exhaust pipes attached. Other brands you unbolt the muffler at the frame and it all comes out.
As far as the sheaves, some of the time there are two (electric PTO) and sometimes there is one double. If taking off the belt and removing the bolt do not work by themselves; there is a penetrant that does an excellent job. I have seen it under a number of names - Nut Buster, Larches, Lawson, etc. It is nonflammable, has a sweet smell and is not cheap. It works amazingly well; spray, allow to soak 3-5 minutes, strike in a non-damaging location 2 or 3 times and don't let the clutch fall on your head. The motion drive pulley may need some soakin or not, but you will want to lock the park brake or remove a spring to take off tension.
Peace,
Clarke
PS Those seven digit model numbers do help with answers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crigby

Hi,
I am afraid I cannot faithfully answer that as I have not pulled one of those engines from a Simplicity. Deere uses that engine and the exhaust pipes on the engine extend about two inches into the muffler. You simply disconnect the electrical and fuel, take out the four engine mount bolts and lift out the engine with exhaust pipes attached. Other brands you unbolt the muffler at the frame and it all comes out.
As far as the sheaves, some of the time there are two (electric PTO) and sometimes there is one double. If taking off the belt and removing the bolt do not work by themselves; there is a penetrant that does an excellent job. I have seen it under a number of names - Nut Buster, Larches, Lawson, etc. It is nonflammable, has a sweet smell and is not cheap. It works amazingly well; spray, allow to soak 3-5 minutes, strike in a non-damaging location 2 or 3 times and don't let the clutch fall on your head. The motion drive pulley may need some soakin or not, but you will want to lock the park brake or remove a spring to take off tension.
Peace,
Clarke
PS Those seven digit model numbers do help with answers!

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Thanks Clarke for the good information.. since I had just joined this forum I wasn't sure how long it would take to get a reply so I continued on my own and discovered what you said was true about the muffler... Only wish I had known before and had not tried to hard but succeeded in getting the nuts off the exhaust manifold only to find out that they would have pulled out easily with the motor... BUT I do have another follow up question for you if you don't mind. When I was under the chassis and trying to figure out what and how to remove the stuff on the drive shaft, I STARTED to unscrew the three bolts that are part of what I am assuming is an electronic clutch as there is an electronic connection to it.. each screw is under tension from a spring.. . however, before I removed any of these, I discovered that removing the bolt at the end of the drive shaft, would allow the whole assembly to come off... now all I have to do is to use a gear puller to remove the pulley.. my question is this... how precise do I need to be in re-tightening the bolts now... how much to I tighten them? Just until they are snug or tighter or looser or by some other gauge? Thanks for any help you can provide.

Geoff

Hi,
I assume you actually refer to three nut that adjust the airgap. The proper way is the use a feeler gauge and to uniformly get 0.012 - 0.014" at all three "windows" (slotted holes in the sides near the nuts and springs.) Since you have loosened them, you should get them close and the recommendation is to turn the nuts in 1/4 turn increments. When you get the correct measurement, spin the halves and double-check.
Finally I would suggest that once is mounted back on the machine, that you turn on the key and engage the clutch (engine not running) and it will give a metallic clunk. Do this a couple of times and check airgap, turn and repeat. Clutches "seat in" and loosening those nuts can get things out of line. Price that clutch and you will see why I tell you to check and re-check.
Peace,
Clarke

Thanks Clarke again... would you mind if I write you again when I get to the stage of installing everything again to be sure I understand what I am supposed to do? I am assuming the 'windows" you referenced mean windows in the clutch assembly itself but at points on the assembly near where the three bolts are... am I correct? And where exactly should I be measuring the air gap? As in between what two points? I am guessing its between two points on the assembly itself and can be adjusted even when its off the shaft. I know it must sound like a stupid question to someone who knows what they are doing, but I doing this by the seat of my pants with no manual and since it is unlikely I will be doing this again, I am hoping to shorten the steepness of the learning curve. Also it will help when I am back in the garage working on it and have it in my hands. It will probably be more obvious then when I can look at it. Not sure how much that clutch assembly is but you have me worried!! By the way, I noticed you are from NC... I went to medical school in Winston Salem, Bowman Gray School of Medicine... and loved the people there!! Thanks again...

Hi,
I am originally from Winston-Salem, went to RHS, father worked for Integon, mother worked for Eben Alexander before I was born and Dept of Neurology after my baby sister started school.
The windows are those 1-1 1/2" x 3/8" slots adjacent to the adjustments. If you hold the outer part of the clutch and reach in the area that the crankshaft fits into, you will be able to spin the two halves. Looking through those slots, you should see a gap with one part moving when you spin on one side of it and the other remain stationary. It is that gap you are measuring. It is very offset toward the engine. It is this gap that disappears upon engagement. It is adjustable on or off, and since you loosened them, should be retightened slowly with patience to achieve evenness as small amounts of warpage can occur that affect the surface matings and therefore the engagement characteristics.
Clutch prices depend on the manufacturer and the economics of scale. Of course, your engine replacement exceeds that cost; but who needs to add an extra $300 if not necessary.
Further questions, and muses, welcome.
Peace,
Clarke

Thanks for the information again... I took a look at some pictures I took that I did for just cases like this, should the come up, and can see the windows you are referring to... I will see if I can gap them correctly when I next get a chance to work on it... sooner rather than later I hope. Prior to writing this post, I had already started to tighten them up, and did so in a gradual pattern. Hopefully, I haven't warped it... will let you know... does this forum allow for including pictures too?

Geoff

Hi,
Yes, it does; do it all the time. Look at one of my posts about belts and having a paperclip marker and there should be a belt routing picture.
Just click on "Go Advanced" and then click on the paperclip in the upper menu bar. A separate window will open for Managing Attachments with three boxes for files, graphics, etc. and three for URLs. Browse to get your file, Open and, when done, click the appropriate Upload buttom (pick the right one.) After they upload I believe you can do more up to the limit for the file type (listed at the bottom of the box by type.)
Peace,
Clarke

Testing to see if I am uploading pictures correctly...

Geoff

Hi,
Works doesn't it. I can two of three slots in the photo.
Peace,
Clarke

In re-reading your posts on my problem I noticed you mentioned that the Motion Pulley, which I believe is the one closest to the top of the chassis, might need some penetrating oil... to remove it.. is that correct? I am not sure but I thought I would need a gear puller for that... but I don't want to if I don't need to since I have no desire to put unnecessary strain and risk deforming it... and all the other parts on the shaft all came off without doing anythinng... do you think it might just come off with some penetrating oil and a tap with a mallet?

Geoff

Hi,
Penetrating oil generally works poorly. The items that I mentioned are penetrants. Known for little or no lubrication abilities, they will loosen most anything. You have either a short 1/4" key or the pulley's center has it built into it. Any stress of the outer part of the pulley is liable to lead to replacement. I do not know who actually makes the stuff I alluded to, but I have seen it under four brand names. The "key" I think would be to look for the descriptions penetrant and non-flammable. It is a shock to see it in action if you have used things like WD40 or such. They are a joke by comparison.
Peace,
Clarke

But I shouldn't need a gear puller under normal circumstances?

Geoff

Hi,
Not with a bit of soaking time and a good penetrant. Those ones I named will "eat" through rust, etc. Try a good automotive, or alternately, hardware store.
Peace,
Clarke

Hi Clarke,

Sorry to bother you again and I think I already know the answer but wanted to be sure... turns out the mounting flanges on the new motor are NOT threaded. Is that normal? I can use a tap and cut some threads in the aluminum flanges but I was a bit surprised that it didn't come already threaded...

Geoff

Hello again Clarke,

I also have another question about the electronic clutch... with the unit detached and sitting in my hand, if I look through any of the three windows, I can see a horizontal line between a large black piece of metal towards the top and a silver piece of metal below.. is that the gap that I am supposed to check? I am NOT able to turn anything on this unit by hand with it disconnected and sitting in my hand but thought I recalled you saying I could spin two pieces... this thing is not spinning no how... at least in its present state... could it be that I have already tightened up too far? If you think it advisable, I don't have such an ego that I would avoid bringing it in to a shop and having them adjust it if you think that's best... I will try to shoot some pictures for you and attach them next...

Geoff

Here is the clutch

Here are pictures of the clutch... is the "gap" between the white and black areas or some other areas? As I mentioned before, I cannot rotate any of the pieces and certainly can't spin them.

Geoff

Hi,
The photo looks like you may have tighened too much. As far as spinnng, if you laid it down right-side up on a table, grasped one of the adjustment areas, reached in to where the crankshaft would normally be; the innermost part should spin while the rest remained still.
The holes are not threaded. In fact there are probably at least one set on extras. The bolts should be thread-cutting; a fact of life in these days of automated assembly. You can of course look at the old engine to ascertain the correct holes to tap and do that. I often put the screws in before installation to cut threads and allow me to easily start them on the machine after the engine is installed. It is a pain to line everything up and then cut the threads.
I do not know that I would take the clutch to a dealer, at least if you can resolve the issue, because they will charge you with no guarantee because they are not doing all the work. I am not trying to disparage dealers in your area; I would do no different. I would probably give you more advice than most.
Peace,
Clarke
PS Hope I covered it all, but you "know" where I am.

I have my eureka moment... I did loosen the nuts and NOW I can move the outer portion as you described... tomorrow I will get some feeler gauges as I have misplaced mine, and will try to get the gap correctly adjusted. Thanks again for your kind help Clarke... will keep you posted on the progress... I am anticipating my next hump to be the voltage regulator... but was somewhat warned about this.. the wiring coming out of the voltage regulator is different than the one I have... I still have the plug with the two yellow wires going back into the engine as before but the wire plugs from the voltage regulator to connect to the wiring harness are different. The new has a single plug with three wires coming out, while the old one has two wires, both separated from each other, that connect to other wires in the wiring harness. If I recall correctly the person who sold me the engine told me to just swap out the voltage regulator from my old one and use it... you agree?

Geoff