Ask Me Help Desk - Fender Bender in Washington State

Good Morning!

This past weekend, I pulled into a busy parking lot (a public beach on a HOT day) to pick up my boyfriend's daughter, and pulled in behind a car waiting for another vehicle to back out of their parking space. As I sat there, I called to let the child know I was there, as the car in front of me started backing up. I hung up the phone, and began backing up to give the car room. Seemingly out of nowhere, I hit a car behind me. Because I hadn't seen a car behind me when I started backing up, I was completely startled, and unsure of what had happened. I looked in my side mirror, and the driver was angrily rushing towards my car, and began swearing and yelling at me. I yelled back, and told him not to swear at me, and that he did not need to talk to me in that manner. He retreated to his car.

I got out of my vehicle to assess the damage, arguing that he had come around the corner, and not seen me in the process of backing up. I drive a Yellow 2001 Ford Ranger, his car is a 1999 Toyota Camry. He stated he was "standing still". Looking at the vehicle, he noticed only a scratch to his bumper. Not knowing what damage was pre-existing, and realizing I'd hit him at an incredibly low rate of speed, I believed this to be the only damage as well. We exchanged personal information, as I'm insured with Geico, but did not have my policy cards on hand. He stated repeatedly that it wasn't a big deal (after apologizing repeatedly for his initial behavior), and that he would look at it and see if the scratch was just paint, he would not want to get insurance involved. However, if the damage was deeper than the paint on that scratch, he would contact me.

Early the next morning, I received a call from him. I retrieved the message, which asked that I call and provide him with my insurance information. I returned his call, and he informed me that there was additional damage to his light cover, and that the damage would be $400-$500 to repair. I asked him if he had obtained an estimate, and he hemmed and hawed, and after being asked a few more times, he finally said no, he'd had a co-worker who "is very knowledgeable about these things" look at it. I requested that he go get an actual estimate and call me back. He returned with two estimates, one totaling $1,631.00, the other $2,250.00. He states he does not agree with the second estimate.

Both estimates contain items that are in no way, shape, or form related to this accident. Things such as "windshield squirter nozzles", "seals" and some that are questionable, like "corrosion protection", and paint for the entire car. They also state there is damage to the "hood", "Toyota Emblem" and that the entire light and assembly needs to be replaced and refocused. One shop estimated 3 days for the work, the other 10.

In talking to the other party at the scene, he apologized to me, for the accident, stating that he wasn't paying attention, because he was trying to get to his daughter on the beach, to pick her up. I informed him that I was there picking up a child as well, and that I did not see him come around the corner as I was backing up. I honestly believe that he drove into me just as much as I backed into him.

Now I'm unsure of what my options are. I would like to offer him either $300 to take care of the scratch that we agreed on-scene was the only damage, or to take his vehicle to a reputable shop that I know, and pay for the scratch to be repaired and painted, and I'll throw in an auto detailing for his troubles. I do not feel that I am fully responsible for this accident, and feel he is trying to take advantage of a woman that he believes doesn't know any better. The blue book value on his vehicle, in excellent condition is only $5,625, and according to the CarFax report I pulled (I retrieved the VIN# from the estimate he provided), his car was involved in an accident in 2003.

Any help, advice, or anecdotes are greatly appreciated, as he has agreed to meet me this afternoon, to have a friend look at the car. Thank you!

Do either of you have any insurance?

He can not get you for things that are not related to the accident. He needs to find a reasonable garage that will give him an estimate on the actual damage from what you did.
I would tell him I am not giving him a dime until he can come up with a reasonable estimate without the extras.

Try and remember exactly how your bumper contacted his. Like if you bumped only a part of the drivers side of his bumper and the passenger light is broke then most likely you didn't do it. Also if his light is broke out and there was no glass on the ground when you hit him then maybe that happened later.

I would take it to where you know if he is willing to do that.
If he is too demanding and unreasonable tell him you want to get a lawyer

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0help4u

Do either of you have any insurance?

Yes, I am insured with Geico, and I believe he is insured with Pemco. I was so flustered when he handed me his insurance card, that I wrote down the policy number, but not the company name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0help4u

try and remember exactly how your bumper contacted his.

Since I drive a pickup truck, our bumpers did not come into contact with one another. My car sits higher than his, so his bumper went underneath mine, and was scratched on the front passenger's side by a screw.

You need to leave it alone and go through your insurance company.

Call your insurance company file the incident and let them do all the work.
Otherwise you may be taken for a ride.

I you hit higher then you may have broke the light but if you didn't hit near the light then you probably didn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyBlueDeuce

Seemingly out of nowhere, I hit a car behind me. Because I hadn't seen a car behind me when I started backing up, I was completely startled, and unsure of what had happened.

This says you weren't paying attention. You backed up in a drive space without being sure the way was clear.

You have already taken ownership of being at fault so you are obligated to have his car repaired. He is entitled to have is car repaired wherever he chooses and does not have to use a shop you recommend just because it's cheaper for you. Also, insurance companies don't necessarily go by Kelly Blue Book value because it's a nationwide average and does not reflect the cost of living value that varies by state. (So in other words, a car valued at $6000 in CA may be valued at $4000 in NC and therefore KBB shows a value of $5000).

If he is agreeing to settle with you outside of involving insurance, then you are practically at his mercy because you have no way of proving what damage was already there. Do you have any pictures or witnesses? Do you recall whether there was glass on the ground?

The fact that his car was in an accident 6 years ago has no bearing on this accident. If you think he's trying to cheat you, call your insurance company where an adjuster will go out and assess the damage to both cars. They are licensed in this and can determine if some damage was pre-existing. Let them handle it because that's what your premiums are for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikosmom

This says you weren't paying attention. You backed up in a drive space without being sure the way was clear.

Thank you for the response. I said "seemingly" because the car was not there when I checked my mirrors before starting to back up, but clearly he did come around the corner, and I did hit him. But as I stated previously, he admitted to not paying attention when he came around the corner, which is why I do not feel I am totally at fault for this accident. Were I not paying attention, I would have admitted so, and furthermore, not going through insurance, and not calling the police was HIS idea, not mine. So now, I am looking for a cheaper solution because we left the scene with one agreement, and now he has changed his mind.

It doesn't matter if he changed his mind becaue you can back your going through the insurance company with the fact that he HAS changed things up on you.
Its not too late to go through the insurance company even though it should have been done by now.

Had to spread the rep Nohelp, but yes, the OP can still make a claim through the insurance. It's not too late.

An agreement on the scene doesn't change things. He can change his mind. You can go through the insurance company and be done with the whole thing or you can drag it out by trying to bargain with him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikosmom

You can go through the insurance company and be done with the whole thing or you can drag it out by trying to bargain with him.

He has an appointment to get an estimate from my guy at 11 o'clock this morning. When we brought up going through insurance, he insisted that we not, but he was informed that if this estimate comes back too high, I will be going through insurance.

If the estimate is reasonable, I'd like to have an agreement for him to sign stating that I have no further obligation to him, after the completion of the body work. Are there any such sample documents out there that anyone can direct me to?

Yes you need a release form and do not agree to anything except damage you did.
Like you said set a price limit and do not go over it.
He is at your mercy on not turning it in, not the other way around.

For a scratch and a broken light fixture I'd say $600. Is about too high.
Under $500. Sounds more reasonable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyBlueDeuce

Thank you for the response. I said "seemingly" because the car was not there when I checked my mirrors before starting to back up, but clearly he did come around the corner, and I did hit him. But as I stated previously, he admitted to not paying attention when he came around the corner, which is why I do not feel I am totally at fault for this accident. Were I not paying attention, I would have admitted so, and furthermore, not going through insurance, and not calling the police was HIS idea, not mine. So now, I am looking for a cheaper solution because we left the scene with one agreement, and now he has changed his mind.

I'm an accident investigator. If you hit him, I see you to be at fault. I hear this all the time - "He must have been speeding because he wasn't there when I started to turn left" or as you said, "He must have come around the corner and so ..."

You are expected to be aware of your surroundings at all times. You can't look in your sideviews or rearview and then back up without continuing to look. If you feel he is some percentage at fault, then go through your insurance companies and let them sort it out.

And people say all sorts of things, make all sorts of admissions at accident scenes. Some are admissions; some are simply something they blurt out under pressure; sometimes people feel it's their fault when it wasn't; sometimes it's out of shock. I never put much stock into on the scene statements.

Otherwise, Nikosmom is in the insurance business and knows her stuff.

I have done thousands and thousands of investigations - I would NEVER not report an accident. Maybe you got lucky. I see little taps that turn into BIG personal injury claims and no one has a Police Report and one party never reported it to the insurance company.

That's what insurance is for - and I realize that rates can go up, policies can be cancelled. I still wouldn't go without reporting it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

If you hit him, I see you to be at fault.

Accident investigator.. excellent! Put aside the rest of the story for a moment, if you will and tell me this... if he says I hit him, and I say he hit me... in the end, how do you determine who is really at fault?

The law is that you backed into him it is well over half your fault. As Judy said you have to be aware of your surroundings at all times.

Like if you are making a left hand turn and somebody plows into you at a high rate of speed from around the bend it is more your fault simply because you were making a left hand turn.

There isn't much point in accusing him because they go by the facts of the accident and determine by the law.
Many people say they didn't do something because in their eyes it is always the other guys fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0help4u

The law is that you backed into him it is well over half your fault. As Judy said you have to be aware of your surroundings at all times.

So essentially, I would've been better off just sitting there and letting the car in front of me hit me?

Yes IN SOME cases that MAY be better to do.
They sometimes say is there anything you could have done to prevent the accident.
Then if it is determined you could have backed up free and clear then once again it would possibly be your fault or partly your fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyBlueDeuce

So essentially, I would've been better off just sitting there and letting the car in front of me hit me?

Please don't argue with people who are trying to help you - you are asking a question which has no answer and is argumentative.

As far as what would I say as an investigator - if things are as you say they were I say you are at fault BUT the other vehicle had a duty to try to avoid the accident. Sight lines, braking time, several factors would enter into this. I would find you 75% and the other vehicle 25%.

But I don't work for YOUR insurance company and I'm not in YOUR State and so it's pure speculation.

I can only tell you what I look for and at when I investigate.

I don't understand why anyone who has insurance doesn't go through his/her insurance company instead of going through all of this stress - that's what insurance is for!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Please don't argue with people who are trying to help you - you are asking a question which has no answer and is argumentative.

Thank you for your response... thought I was neither trying to be argumentative, nor ask a redundant question. I'm 30 years old, and this is my first car accident. I'm trying to learn all I can from this experience, so I can carry it forward with me in life.

I actually asked the question because I have several friends who worked as claims adjusters with Allstate for years, and while seeking advice from one of them (prior to posting here), I was told (and I quote) "I hate to say it, but sometimes it's just better to sit there and take the hit." I didn't believe her (which is why I proceeded to post here), but the feedback I was receiving made me wonder if there could actually be some truth to her statement... so who better to ask than a group of professionals who are offering their expertise? (Now THAT is my idea of a redundant question!) ;)

I did ascertain an answer from your response though. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like were I to have been hit by the car in front of me, I could be considered 25% responsible for the accident... which would technically be "better" than the 75% responsibility I would now assume, were I on your case load. Is that a fair analysis?

Like I said it depends on the situation but yes it is often better to let somebody else hit you rather than you hitting somebody else to avoid being hit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0help4u

yes IN SOME cases that MAY be better to do.

While not the answer I was hoping for, it is good to know. This has made me wonder about other instances in which I may think an evasive move is the best move, and it may not be. I'm storing information, so hopefully it will be in my head should (Heaven forbid) I ever need to use it.

If you can avoid an accident then you have to do what you can to keep them from hitting you BUT IF your hitting somebody else would be the result of avoiding being hit THEN it is better to let them hit you. THEN you can say NO I couldn't back up because a car was on my back bumper and I WOULD have hit them