I was wondering if I could get some view points from Christians of various denominations.

Do you feel God judges people for the sins they are unaware of? Would God send a person to hell for being unaware of Christianity? Even if the person in question was agnostic yet did more work to prosper love, well being, and the importance in doing so than most Christians normally would?

I have no clue if this is legitimate, but a friend of mine that is Church of Christ told me that I'm going to hell for not being of his denomination.

I'm not worried about it particularly, but I'd like some insight of what people's actual thoughts are on this subject.

Your friend sounds brainwashed by mans religion. I do believe that there is only one way and one truth but he can not be claiming his church has the ONLY WAY.
I believe people are going to be surprised on judgment day.

The Bible says in the last day that many will say Lord, Lord didn't we do these great works in your name and He will say depart from me.

The Bible says seek and you shall find not follow some man made tradition and you will be the right one.

The Bible says God has mercy on whom he will have mercy so I can't account for what about the ones who never heard.
People that condemn because they think they have all the answers are just plain wrong.

Hence why I'm not worried. I personally have a great inner knowing of things. I'm a little more interested in seeing the perspective of those who do believe this, I'm not here to judge though.

But, unless you have a personal relationship with God and his son Jesus, the bible tells us that your name will not written in the book of life. Church is mans attempts at reaching God. Having a personal relationship is way Gods way of knowing you.

Most Chrsitian denominations teach that you are only saved by accepting Christ as your Saviour.
You don't have to do anything to go to hell, you are going there if you have not accepted Christ.

We are all sinners so it is not any one sin, it is all the sin in our life.

So yes, if you have not accepted Christ then you are not saved.

By Christ do you mean Jesus? Or of christening itself? And if Jesus (by which I'm pretty sure you are pertaining to), is there anything in the bible that makes a distinct clarification that Jesus is the one and only soul proprietor of christening in existence, of all future, past, and present?

And with that aside, what are your definitions of christ?

(these questions are for everyone)

I believe that God will say "ignorance is no excuse", same as the municipal court judge says when you say "but your honor, I didn't know the speed limit was only 50." Now, I certainly don't believe that not being of the denomination of Church of Christ is a sin and it will take some awfully long (and ultimately fruitless) searching of the scriptures to convince me otherwise.

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Originally Posted by s_cianci

I believe that God will say "ignorance is no excuse", same as the municipal court judge says when you say "but your honor, I didn't know the speed limit was only 50." Now, I certainly don't believe that not being of the denomination of Church of Christ is a sin and it will take some awfully long (and ultimately fruitless) searching of the scriptures to convince me otherwise.

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Are you saying that every possible sin imaginable is recognizable to any and everyone, and that every conscious entity capable of committing sin has always and ever will be subject to an environment that would surely make this concept of sin, forgiveness, and admittance to heaven available?

Sorry if I seem overly critical, I just like to be thorough, it's the way I think. I'm not biased.

No it means you have no excuse for living in your sin and not accepting Christ.
Many people hear about God and refuse to give up their sin because they like their lifestyle. Its about rejecting Christ you remain in your sinful nature.
People who never heard of Christ they may be under Gods mercy. But choosing your way and rejecting Christ makes you a sinner. Most people who would do this will in the end try and claim 'but I didn't know'. That is basically what S_cianni is saying.

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Are you saying that every possible sin imaginable is recognizable to any and everyone, and that every conscious entity capable of committing sin has always and ever will be subject to an environment that would surely make this concept of sin, forgiveness, and admittance to heaven available?

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No, absolutely not ; in fact, I'm basically saying the exact opposite of this, that there will be many who will always be ignorant to sin and to the concepts of forgiveness and repentance. But I'm also asserting that God will not buy that ; he won't say "OK, well you didn't know any better so it's alright", much the same as the traffic court analogy I used in my first response. No judge would ever say "well, you didn't know you were breaking the law, so it's OK. You don't have to pay the fine [or serve the time, whatever.]" That's my take on it. A judge is called a judge for a reason, just like we use the word judge to describe God's actions for a reason.

Yes, the bible is very clear that Jesus is the only way to Salvation. That is the entire theme of the bible

All right, in such the case. I was wondering why God would punish an entity for an unrealized sin for a never ending eternity without the chance of making amends and making use of the punishment. If such actions are correct, what do you think of the concept of spending the rest of your life in prison for that speeding ticket. All sins are equal in the eyes of God. So should they not be in the eyes of the Judge? And in the case of the statement "Humanity has a life long opportunity to learn of their mistakes and make amends for the sins, so there is no excuse", where would the justification be in that it is enough time? Personally I feel that it is not a matter of time at all, but a matter of opportunity presenting itself, opportunity that at least once shows it's self as 100% perceptible to the conscious awareness of every being. With my understanding punishment exists so that a person may learn from it, if punishment would last for eternity, it has no purpose as even with realization of the wrongs one might realize in hell, it would be all for nothing, utterly worthless. Under such circumstances I can't possibly conceive any other way to understand hell as nothing but simple torture, torture without cause, torture in hell does nothing for the past, present, or future.

I'm very much open for debate on this statement. And again, I'm not here to bash, I really do just think this deeply on the subject, and I want to make amends and understanding that overrides my current understanding.

God gives us time to take the opportunity. That is what life is about.
In hell and eternity there is no time.
God is the one that made us and he knew what we would do. He gave us free will to accept or reject his ways.
If we reject his ways and end up in hell we sent ourselves there by our own hard heartedness

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Originally Posted by -Seven-

Alright, in such the case. I was wondering why God would punish an entity for an unrealized sin for a never ending eternity without the chance of making amends and making use of the punishment. If such actions are correct, what do you think of the concept of spending the rest of your life in prison for that speeding ticket. All sins are equal in the eyes of God. So should they not be in the eyes of the Judge? And in the case of the statement "Humanity has a life long opportunity to learn of their mistakes and make amends for the sins, so there is no excuse", where would the justification be in that it is enough time? Personally I feel that it is not a matter of time at all, but a matter of opportunity presenting itself, opportunity that at least once shows it's self as 100% perceptible to the conscious awareness of every being. With my understanding punishment exists so that a person may learn from it, if punishment would last for eternity, it has no purpose as even with realization of the wrongs one might realize in hell, it would be all for nothing, utterly worthless. Under such circumstances I can't possibly conceive any other way to understand hell as nothing but simple torture, torture without cause, torture in hell does nothing for the past, present, or future.

I'm very much open for debate on this statement. And again, I'm not here to bash, I really do just think this deeply on the subject, and I want to make amends and understanding that overrides my current understanding.

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It is what is in the Bible. Granted I don't understand a lot of the whys and every single passage, especially in the OT, but the Bible is about God and our relationship to Him.
It is not about MY ideas or what I THINK, it is about God and what He thinks and expects and tells us.



G&P

I've always been a free thinker with spot on intuition. I just find it mind blowing that everyone is so 100% convinced that the Bible has never been edited at least once within it's existence over all this time. So much of it's wisdom does ring with truth, but some bits.. well, seem suspicious. I'm about to do a LOT of research on this possibility.

I mean, take reincarnation for instance, there are SO many cases of children born speaking languages they've never been introduced to, with stories regarding past lives, many of which have been found evident and consistent. I've met people who have had past life regression therapy who swear by their experience. I mean wouldn't it be a little ignorant of me to deny all of this without giving it a moment's consideration?

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Originally Posted by -Seven-

I've always been a free thinker with spot on intuition. I just find it mind blowing that everyone is so 100% convinced that the Bible has never been edited atleast once within it's existence over all this time. So much of it's wisdom does ring with truth, but some bits..well, seem suspicious.

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The ability and power of God is not questioned in my mind or heart. And each individual will be held accountable by their choices within their own heart and mind.
So ask yourself how the rock or stone on your last walk was placed at your feet? Who put it there? Why is it there? When did it get there? What made it the size it is? Where will it be tomorrow?

Do you have all the answers?

I am sure if we are honest, neither of us can confirm the answers. We could guess the answer, But this is where I trust in God. If God felt it was necessary to answer even one of the questions, then God would give us that answer.

What God did feel was necessary is for us to gain knowledge. As scripture tells us refer(Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction)

As for what has blown your mind, perhaps it is your own assumption.

Without assumption, begin by studying the word Massorah which is from the root masar, to deliver something into the hand of another, so as to commit it to his trust. The name is given, because it contains information necessary to those who could trust the Sacred Text was committed, so that they might transcribe it, and hand it down correctly.
This had been the work of the Sopherim, and their work was to preserve the Sacred Text. The Massorah is called "A Fence to the Scriptures," because it locked all words and letters in their places.

http://www.biblestudysite.com/massorah.htm

Note: This work lasted about 110 years, from Nehemiah to Simon the first, 410 - 300 B.C.

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Originally Posted by -Seven-

I've always been a free thinker with spot on intuition. I just find it mind blowing that everyone is so 100% convinced that the Bible has never been edited atleast once within it's existence over all this time. So much of it's wisdom does ring with truth, but some bits..well, seem suspicious. I'm about to do a LOT of research on this possibility.

I mean, take reincarnation for instance, there are SO many cases of children born speaking languages they've never been introduced to, with stories regarding past lives, many of which have been found evident and consistent. I've met people who have had past life regression therapy who swear by their experience. I mean wouldn't it be a little ignorant of me to deny all of this without giving it a moment's consideration?

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If you research the bible with the scholars you will find that it is actually more factual [ archaeologically, first person accounts, academic scrutiny etc ] than any ONE person's account.

How can one person's reported "past life" testimony even be considered if it cannot be objectively proved?



G&P

All anyone has to do to get to heaven is be perfect/perfectly righteous.

As Jesus said, speaking the Law to those who felt they had not done any great sin:

Mt 5:48-6:1
48 "Be perfect , therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
NIV

So stop fighting over which sin or how many sins will cause a person to go to hell.
It is all a matter that no one who is or has been imperfect can escape hell. Under God's law no one can be in heaven with Him unless they have absolutely no sin.

Thus, if people have a way of avoiding or getting rid all and every sin (including inherited sin from Adam), they can be in heaven with God Who IS perfect. But none can achieve this.

The thing that we teach is that we have been made aware of and trust in the savior that God in heaven promised and sent for us. He is the only one promised by anyone to divert us from hell.

Col 2:13-15
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
NIV

2 Co 5:17-21
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
NIV

1 Jn 1:5-10
5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.

6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.
NIV

Jn 1:29

29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
NIV

Seven,
I agree with Fr_Chuck on this.
Also my denomination, which is Catholic, believes that if you do something and do not know that it is sinful to do that in certain instances you are not held accountable for it.
I my case when I pray for forgiveness I ask for forgiveness of all my sins which I am and am not aware of.
I DO NOT want to offend God in any way and I say so.
Peace and kindness,
Fred