My son is 4 and his father is moving to Colorado while I live in Florida with residential custody of the baby. My question is what is a fair amount of time to uproot this baby and send him to Colorado without messing him up mentally, emotionally or physically? I believe anytime over a week is far too long to uproot a child at such a young age, however one week is not long enough for him to visit his father since he will be so far away?

Please advise, I support a relationship between my son and his father, however I believe in structure and stability for children, especially at the young age he is at.

Thank you in advance.

Its debatable and ultimately will be up to the judge. I personally don't think that any amount of time is too much to be with a parent that loves him.

Really? Then apparently mental health means nothing to you. My question has nothing to do whether my son is loved. His father and I love him dearly and both support a relationship with the child and the other parent.

My issues lie with ripping my son from his home to be uprooted from stability and structure to be placed in a strange place away from the comforts of his home for an extended amount of time. He is 4 years old, he will not have the brain capacity to understand what is going on.

Then on the other hand I am concerned that if he doesn't see his father on a regular basis then that is setting the child up for failure as well. I would never take my son from his father, that would be a severe injustice for this already broken family.

Where do I draw a happy healthy line?

And my response has nothing to do with how much you or your ex love him.

You are obviously bitter of this. Look at the words you use... you make your home look like heaven and your ex's look like hell.

You want the legal answer? This IS a legal board after all...

The legal answer is that YOU have no say in how much or how little he gets. He requests what he does and the judge either agrees with it or doesn't. You may voice your concerns, but ultimately it is up to the judge and what you want is of little concern.

First this is a legal board and therefore answers here have to conform to the law. I don't know of any state that would deny reasonable visitation.

As far as the child's mental health. Have you consulted with any child psychologists? I gather the father as lived in FL near enough so he has seen his son reasonably frequently.

Therefore, I think your description of "ripping my son from his home to be uprooted from stability and structure to be placed in a strange place away" is a crock. Children are a lot more resilient then you give them credit for.

I might understand your attitude if the father was a stranger to him. But as long as there are familiar people around him, the strange surroundings are not going to impair his mental health.

I don't think 2 weeks or even a month is going to have an adverse affect on him.

Agreed, if you want someone to pat your hand and tell you, "poor you" go to the relationship or parenting board.

This is the legal board, and your ex gets exactly the amount of visit time if he lives across the street or across the country if that is what your custody agreement says.

1. first what does the agreement say about him moving that far away, mine says that any move over 30 miles away allows the other party to ask for chages in all terms

2. If this was on the other side of town, the child would still not see you the entire time, the child will not know the difference between across town or accorss country really, esp with phone calls and the such.

Normally a month is not uncommon for this type of things,

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Originally Posted by book12ja

Really? Then apparently mental health means nothing to you. My question has nothing to do wether my son is loved. His father and I love him dearly and both support a relationship with the child and the other parent.

My issues lie with ripping my son from his home to be uprooted from stability and structure to be placed in a strange place away from the comforts of his home for an extended amount of time. He is 4 years old, he will not have the brain capacity to understand what is going on.

Then on the other hand I am concerned that if he doesnt see his father on a regular basis then that is setting the child up for failure as well. I would never take my son from his father, that would be a severe injustice for this already broken family.

Where do I draw a happy healthy line?

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Where did you get your ideas from about "mental health"? Sending him to see his father for large blocks of time is hardly "ripping" him from his home or "uprooting [him] from stability and structure." Quite the contrary.

If I were the judge in this case I'd say he should have the entire summers with his dad--3 months at least and shared holidays. I've seen that ordered for a 4 year old, or younger child many times in California cases.

As the others have said, like it or not, your son is about to get acquainted with the state of Colorado. If you are that concerned, then simply sit down with your son and have a talk with him. Explain to him that Daddy's moving to a place that's far away from Florida and that he'll be visiting with Daddy there. Accentuate the positive ; tell him nice things about Colorado, such as the big, beautiful mountains, etc. And as has already been said, in this day and age of cell phones, IM, etc. Colorado can seem like next door and you'll be able to talk with your son whenever you want, even when he's in Colorado.

Just to throw in a little extra of the same thing. It is typical for large distance like that to have a block of about a month or six weeks of the summer with the ncp as well as every other holiday on alternating years if that makes sense... like Easter at your house then Christmas at his dad's house then the next year Easter with Dad and Christmas with you.

Bitter no, annoyed and frustrated... absolutly. I would never have thought that any judge would order a 4 year old that far from a custodial parent for that long. Honestly.

Well I guess my question has been answered. Unfortunately, I personally don't agree with this. I guess the "law" knows more than an emotional parent. Good thing I never went into practicing law.

As a quick note, my home IS a small heaven for that baby. I work very hard to give my child the best life he can have considering what his father did to us.

To cadillac59:

Where I get "mental heath" is basically from the feeling of structure and stability. I want my child to know he has a loving home and a place he can always go to no matter what. His father was not like that and was basically a gypsy running from house to house bed to bed. Now, yes a different story.
Its not fair that me and my son have to deal with this, but the law doesn't see the emotional stand point, it looks at the black and white, unlike myself.

Well thank you everyone for your input and if anyone has any other suggestions I will gladly listen/read. Its off to the "emotional" forum to learn to accpet this and deal with it, thanks again.

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Originally Posted by book12ja

Bitter no, annoyed and frustrated...absolutly. I would never have thought that any judge would order a 4 year old that far from a custodial parent for that long. Honestly.

Well I guess my question has been answered. Unfortunatly, I personally dont agree with this. I guess the "law" knows more than an emotional parent. Good thing I never went into practicing law.

As a quick note, my home IS a small heaven for that baby. I work very hard to give my child the best life he can have considering what his father did to us.

To cadillac59:

Where I get "mental heath" is basically from the feeling of structure and stability. I want my child to know he has a loving home and a place he can always go to no matter what. His father was not like that and was basically a gypsy running from house to house bed to bed. Now, yes a different story.
Its not fair that me and my son have to deal with this, but the law doesnt see the emotional stand point, it looks at the black and white, unlike myself.

Well thank you everyone for your input and if anyone has any other suggestions I will gladly listen/read. Its off to the "emotional" forum to learn to accpet this and deal with it, thanks again.

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The problem here is that you are wrong on several counts. In any custody issue the courts mandate is always the "best interests of the child" first. So yes, the courts do look at the emotional standpoint. For some reason you seem to have gotten it into your head, that a 4 year old can't handle living somewhere else for a time. You need to talk to some child psychologist to disabuse yourself of this notion so you will not worry so much about him spending a block of time with his father. Familiar surroundings are not as important as familiar people. As long as your son is with people he knows and is comfortable with and who show him love, then the where is very secondary. That's what you need to understand.

And yes, you are "an emotional parent". I'm sure you have provided a loving and caring home for your son (though I fear it may be approaching smothering based on your posts here). But you are too close to the issue. So you can't see what the rest of use see.

The ONLY way I can see your blocking the father from an extended block of time for visitation is if a competent psychologist would determine that it would, in fact, be harmful to your son. So take him to one. What I think the result would be is the counselor will wind up counseling you about lossening up the apron strings.

"Familar surroundings are not as important as familiar people"

This statement is so right, and that is what I will be focusing on from here on out.

Thank you again for the "black and white" advice, my head can agree with this, my heart a different story. I will be looking for a child psychologist today and setting up an appointment in the best efforts to ensure my son and of course, myself can become adjusted to this soon-to-be arrangement.

As far as the home. Smothering, not so much, but after reading all the responses I feel it more my own needs being pushed onto my son. He doesn't care what toys he has or what clothes he wears as long as he has love, food, water and toilet, he will be happy and adjusted, whether it be in Florida or Colorado.

Now for a more "legal" question...

His father should be paying for the transfer of the child. He pays child support as appointed in the divorce papers. However we never put anything in there about moving. Since "he" choses to work in a different state, I believe that to be "his" choice and "he" should pay the consequences of "his" choice. I have moved once since the divorce, not far, and he has moved twice. Once 45 minutes away and the other 1.5 hours away, he is not around for any emergencies and never was, but in his defense he cares and has tried to be there.

Am I emotional or right on this one?

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Originally Posted by book12ja

"Familar surroundings are not as important as familiar people"

This statement is so right, and that is what I will be focusing on from here on out.

Thank you again for the "black and white" advice, my head can agree with this, my heart a different story. I will be looking for a child psychologist today and setting up an appointment in the best efforts to ensure my son and of course, myself can become adjusted to this soon-to-be arrangement.

As far as the home. Smothering, not so much, but after reading all the responses i feel it more my own needs being pushed onto my son. He doesnt care what toys he has or what clothes he wears as long as he has love, food, water and toilet, he will be happy and adjusted, whether it be in florida or colorado.

Now for a more "legal" question...

His father should be paying for the transfer of the child. He pays child support as appointed in the divorce papers. However we never put anything in there about moving. Since "he" choses to work in a different state, I belive that to be "his" choice and "he" should pay the consequences of "his" choice. I have moved once since the divorce, not far, and he has moved twice. Once 45 minutes away and the other 1.5 hours away, he is not around for any emergencies and never was, but in his defense he cares and has tried to be there.

Am I emotional or right on this one?

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You are right on this account. He is the one that added the additional hardship, it is his onus to overcome it.

As for the previous statement about pushing yiour feelings... I applaud you for this enlightened comment. It seems as though you are actually accepting some of the advice posted here. Frankly, its uncommon for us to see that. Its not much of a consolation, but this whole thing is going to be a lot harder on you than it is on him. After all, he will get to spend a lot of time in CO. I live in Florida... and the summers here are brutal. Summer in CO... pretty darn nice. And as a boy, he is likely to enjoy a lot of the things that CO offers along the lines of outdoors activities and such. Honestly, I wish I could go to CO for a few weeks every summer...

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Originally Posted by book12ja

"Familar surroundings are not as important as familiar people"

This statement is so right, and that is what I will be focusing on from here on out.

Thank you again for the "black and white" advice, my head can agree with this, my heart a different story. I will be looking for a child psychologist today and setting up an appointment in the best efforts to ensure my son and of course, myself can become adjusted to this soon-to-be arrangement.

As far as the home. Smothering, not so much, but after reading all the responses i feel it more my own needs being pushed onto my son. He doesnt care what toys he has or what clothes he wears as long as he has love, food, water and toilet, he will be happy and adjusted, whether it be in florida or colorado.

Now for a more "legal" question...

His father should be paying for the transfer of the child. He pays child support as appointed in the divorce papers. However we never put anything in there about moving. Since "he" choses to work in a different state, I belive that to be "his" choice and "he" should pay the consequences of "his" choice. I have moved once since the divorce, not far, and he has moved twice. Once 45 minutes away and the other 1.5 hours away, he is not around for any emergencies and never was, but in his defense he cares and has tried to be there.

Am I emotional or right on this one?

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I'm glad to see you've been willing to listen to the advice others have given on this board and are accepting of it. The reason I say this is I've encountered moms who sounded a awfully lot like you in cases like yours and they usually ended up creating a great deal of trouble for themselves with their "I-can't-let-my-baby-out-of-my-sight-for-5-seconds" attitude. In fact I've seen moms who think like that lose custody to the dad. Being overly protective of a child is harmful--very harmful. In fact I heard a child psychologist say once that being overly protective of kids was as harmful as being physically abusive, if not more so.

So, yes. Get some help with learning how to be a sharing parent. You'll be fine.

Finally, I think the court will order transportation costs be shared equally, unless the dad's move was merely whimsical, which it doesn't sound like it was.

If the court ordered a kid that young to have visitations how would they get there if nobody is able to take the child that far?

I know in 1986 I wanted to send my daughter from Tx to Pa on a plane to my parents while I drove up and the airlines said they no longer will escort children that young.

In cases of distance what I have seen Judges do is grant a summer month and maybe Christmas holidays to the non primary parent.

My son is only 4 so he is not in school yet, so he can be escorted there and back virtually anytime. I believe that his father should either come here and get him or I will take the child there, at his expense. Regardless of what anyone says, I am holding strong that the NCP will be paying ALL of the travel expenses, period. He moved there for work, a job HE chooses to take. He can change careers, he has a degree as well. Its his bad choices he has made in the past forcing the move. Not my or my sons problem.

I will also be arguing that if he is out of daycare for he will lose his spot unless I continue to pay. So if his father wants him for more than a week who has to pay the $182 a week daycare bill when the child is not there? We only get one week off every 6 months at his daycare. Either that or I loose his spot and I can no longer work. Granted the guy pays child support and that is argument enough. However, it's a bit ridiculous to pay that amount of money for a month. So what can be done for this situation legally?

I can appreciate summer vacations, when he is in school, and other holiday vacations to take him there. However, isn't it a little unfair to the custodial parent to not have any of the vacations and holidays? When the child has off school he goes with the father, all right, what about the mother getting any of that vacation time? Shouldn't I get some of summer and winter vacation too, I would like to enjoy no homework and no school time as well. Granted we live together and see each other everyday, but what about the fun times too? Don't I get to see any of those if he is gone all summer? Where do I draw the line to being considerate of the child's needs to be with both parents?

Now you are talking! I do think. He should come and get him or, at least pay for you or a companion to accompany him.

As for the daycare, I don't think you will win on that score. I don't see how a daycare can be that exclusive that you would need to hold his place.

Most daycares do have you enroll them and sign a contract so you can lose the spot if you do not pay for xx amount of days.
Daycare contracts are lengthy and complex not the same as yrs ago.

Check with different daycares though because they do have varying policies on missing days. Some say if you give them sufficient prior notice they will work with you.

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Originally Posted by book12ja

My son is only 4 so he is not in school yet, so he can be escorted there and back virtually anytime. I believe that his father should either come here and get him or I will take the child there, at his expense. Regardless of what anyone says, I am holding strong that the NCP will be paying ALL of the travel expenses, period. He moved there for work, a job HE chooses to take. He can change careers, he has a degree as well. Its his bad choices he has made in the past forcing the move. Not my or my sons problem.

I will also be arguing that if he is out of daycare for he will lose his spot unless I continue to pay. So if his father wants him for more than a week who has to pay the $182 a week daycare bill when the child is not there? We only get one week off every 6 months at his daycare. Either that or I loose his spot and I can no longer work. Granted the guy pays child support and that is argument enough. However, its a bit ridiculous to pay that amount of money for a month. So what can be done for this situation legally?

I can appreciate summer vacations, when he is in school, and other holiday vacations to take him there. However, isnt it a little unfair to the custodial parent to not have any of the vacations and holidays? When the child has off of school he goes with the father, alright, what about the mother getting any of that vacation time? Shouldnt I get some of summer and winter vacation too, I would like to enjoy no homework and no school time as well. Granted we live together and see each other everyday, but what about the fun times too? Dont I get to see any of those if he is gone all summer? Where do I draw the line to being considerate of the childs needs to be with both parents?

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I'll tell you what many of the judges I know and appear in front of all the time would say. They'd give you about 60 seconds to plead your case for the dad paying all the travel expenses and your daycare thing. Then they'd say, "travel expenses will be shared equally between the parties, daycare will be shared equally." That's it. That is what the majority of judges would order. Sorry.

Daycare expenses are almost always shared 50-50. Travel expenses are too. Like I said before, unless something really weird is going on with why the dad moved out of state, which it doesn't sound like, you're going to share those travel costs.

You are right about deserving holiday time yourself. You'll get to split the school holidays when your son starts school, the dad will get most of the summer, but you will get a few weeks for yourself. That's about it.

As I said before you will most likely alternate the holidays (time off school) so you will get him part of the time. You will also get a couple weeks out of the summer. I don't see you winning the daycare thing though. I just haven't seen anythiing like that happen (yet). I have seen the parent that moved have to foot the extra expens of travel (not necessarily all but a good chunk) however, daycare and support and what not is figured on an average so you will be getting the same amount of support even while you don't have your son at your home so you can put that money toward holding his place in day care if you want.