My question is this:

At what part in this scenario is the husband unfaithful:

1. Husband smiles at girl in bar
2. Husband chats to girl in bar
3. Husband flirts with girl in bar
4. Husband touches arm of girl in bar
5. Husband touches leg of girl in bar
6. Husband touches of girl in bar
7. Husmand masturbates in shower, thinking of the girl he met in the bar
8. Husband has`sex with wife but thinks of the girl he met in bar
9. Husband has oral sex with girl he met in bar
10 Husband has sex with girl he met in bar

I'll go with #9.

I'd say #9 as well.

I will say 8, 9, and 10. Lines started getting crossed at 6.

So my wife cannot complain if I flirt all night with girls in bars?

She can still think you are being an . Weigh your options flirt and you may have a price to pay with your wife.

I said #9 because I do know a lot of people that are touchy feely types, who are just that way... and #8, well, that's just fantasy... and everyone fantasizes at some point. Men and women. Its normal. And who needs the thought police telling us what to think, and when anyway. That rationalizes my pick.

Well sure she can complain. I wouldn't like it if my husband flirted with other girls. Just because it's not cheating doesn't mean your wife should be happy with it.

I'm a flirt. It never goes anywhere. My wife is OK with it. Of course I'm rarely in bars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pushtumpa

So my wife cannot complain if I flirt all night with girls in bars?

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She can complain.

I say unfaithful starts at #9 but if your intentions and desires are focused on other women then your unfaithfulness starts in your heart before #1,

So to me the way I see it is
There are guys that go with the little bit of flirting and don't mean anything by it.
Then there are guys who have it in them to flirt and see just how far they can take it.

Motives and the desires of your heart are the only thing that can answer the question where unfaithfulness starts for you.
If it bothers your wife then you should take that into consideration and show her respect.
You may not mean anything by it but to her it may feel awkward and an insult to her feelings.

I going to say number 3 :o

I'm the jealous type and I've been cheated on before.

Each couple defines what is cheating for THEIR relationship. There is no "set" point that something is defined as cheating.

If your wife says it's #1, and you say it's #10, then you've got a heck of a conversation to have with each other to work that out.

The problem I have is with no person should have to cower and hide and live with unrealistiv demands of a spouse with self esteme issues. The problem is with the peron with issues... no adult should be demanding another adult be subserviant to their every demand. Man or woman. If you aren't in someone else's pants, there isn't cheating. Yeah, I would send any woman packing that thought she had the right to control where I look, who I talk to what I think about...

That's abuse... and plenty of women have complained about guys that subjected them to the same behaviour... well, I feel its wrong for either party to do so. That's no way for any adult to live in my mind. At 47 nobody is my superiour, I'm not a 7 year old. People are responsible for dealing with their own issues, and to not impose them onto others rather than dealing with it in a healthy manner.

Notice, I never said fooling around... getting in anothers pants while married (and not seperated) is the one thing a spouse can rightfully expect to not take place. Not whom you look at, or think about,or even talk to. After all, when that demand takes place then one person thinks they are superiour to the other, and the other is a second class person with fewer rights than they themselves have. We got rid of that being institutionalizd a VERY long time ago.


Yeah... as a self supporting adult, personal freedom, and freedom from being oppressed or bullied by ANYONE IS a big topic with me.

I agree Synenn, as long as both partners are on the same level it is fine.

I see your point also Smoothy, a lot of people are fine with both flirting and just having fun with no strings (flirting), I'm just not one of them is all.

My partner knows about my insecurities and he has done since the day we started dating so he doesn't have a problem with it.

A married couple we are friends with regularly have sex outside of their marriage and they are fine with it as long as their partner tells them beforehand or they are also involved.

Different strokes for different folks as they say.

Smoothy--MY definition of cheating is very close to your definition.

However--the OP's WIFE'S definition might be VERY different.

If a couple is (forgive me here, but it's the best word I can come up with) stupid enough not to set ground rules for that sort of thing BEFORE they get married, then COMMUNICATION is the problem, not self-esteem.

I agree that people shouldn't prevent their significant others from speaking to, flirting with, or even touching another person--but that's got to be defined for EACH RELATIONSHIP.

If you can't agree on a definition of what cheating is, then your relationship is doomed anyway.

I'd personally say 5. that is if he was rubbing her leg and not just patting it.. because that is also leading the girl into thinking he wants something more than just a friendly chat

I frigging well going with them all!

And I'm also going to say if this was my husband/boyfriend.

My reason is this.. if the girl in the bar is the SAME girl numbered 1 to 10,he has developed a crush or fantasy surrounding this girl,he is thinking about her,talking about her,then his focus is on her,not his primary relationship.

If its harmless flirting with a few woman,or the odd fantasy,1 to 6,is fine with me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Smoothy--MY definition of cheating is very close to your definition.

However--the OP's WIFE'S definition might be VERY different.

If a couple is (forgive me here, but it's the best word I can come up with) stupid enough not to set ground rules for that sort of thing BEFORE they get married, then COMMUNICATION is the problem, not self-esteem.

I agree that people shouldn't prevent their significant others from speaking to, flirting with, or even touching another person--but that's got to be defined for EACH RELATIONSHIP.

If you can't agree on a definition of what cheating is, then your relationship is doomed anyway.

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See, the fact SHE feels SHE is the one that can demand and control his life... because SHE has self esteme issues. If this was turned around and it was a guy doing this... and it has happened all too often to young women before they learn better, then its considered abuse. Its not right no matter who is doing it. And the person with the issues should get their issues resolved rather than expect other to conform to them.

Yeah communication is key obviously, but more people need to understand that one persons rights end where anothers begin. That right there is the source of so many problems its not even funny. Its just a variation of the golden rule... "do unto others, as you would have others do upon you." Hell so many problems gravitate back to that one thing.

Yeah everyone isn't going to be the same... but I like to use the above rule as a guidline as to if its right or wrong to do.

But I think we are drifting way off topic at this point, so rant over..

Exactly they have to come to agreement and understanding.
Like it depends on things like is the wife being unrealistic or is his flirting to a degree that makes the wife feel uncomfortable.

Like HOW is he touching another woman's leg.

I can sense when anybody touches, hugs or grabs at me whether it is meant sexual or just casual buddy.
I know when I grab a guys arm to make sure I have their attention when I say something
Whoever I am with thinks I am flirting when its nothing like that.

I know I wouldn't feel comfortable if I were sitting in a bar with my boyfriend and he started touching some girls leg. I would be asking myself why he felt the need to be touching her leg. I would be asking myself how would he feel if I went touching some guys leg.

If I were the wife that IS how I would handle it. I would be like what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If he can touch her leg I can touch some other guys leg.

But Smoothy--is SHE the one being irrational, because of self esteem issues?

Or is HE the one that is expecting to be able to act like he's single, even though he is now married?

I think anything from #5 on could be absolutely construed as cheating, depending on how it's done.

I'm a natural flirt. I made sure my husband understood that no matter who I flirted with, or touched (as long as it wasn't in a no-no place), I was going home with him---and if he couldn't deal with it, then we should end things before they get started.

However--if I had NEVER been a flirt, and then --because I'm bored in my marriage or whatever--just START to flirt with random guys in bars and touch them in ways to lead them on----my husband would have EVERY right to complain.

It's not about self-esteem or being controlling--it's about respecting each other enough to realize where the boundaries of any particular relationship are.