My husband and I have been together for 9 years, married for almost 4. We have two beautiful children a 2 yr old and a 4 month old. The first two years we were dating we had sex all of the time. The last 7 years it feels like it is not happening enough. I understand that relationships go through stages, but I feel horrible about this all of the time. I feel undesired and unwanted. He also never says I love you first. He'll answer me if I tell him. This also really bothers me. When I ask him about this he says well my parents weren't real affectionate with us, we never said I love you, yada yada yada. He says honey I show you love you all the time with my actions. Which he does. He is a wonderful husband, he's a very hands on dad. But if he knows that I want him to tell me I love you why doesn't he do it. We co-sleep with our children but I don't think this has anything to do with us not sleeping together since this problem existed before then. I'm getting to the point where I feel if things don't change I'm going to want out of my marriage. Are these selfish things I'm asking. We are still young. Any advice would really help. I feel like one day I'm just going to be over trying to get him to want to make love to me.

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Originally Posted by JacquelineM

My husband and I have been together for 9 years, married for almost 4. We have two beautiful children a 2 yr old and a 4 month old. The first two years we were dating we had sex all of the time. The last 7 years it feels like it is not happening enough. I understand that relationships go through stages, but I feel horrible about this all of the time. I feel undesired and unwanted. He also never says I love you first. He'll answer me if I tell him. This also really bothers me. When I ask him about this he says well my parents weren't real affectionate with us, we never said I love you, yada yada yada. He says honey I show you love you all the time with my actions. Which he does. He is a wonderful husband, he's a very hands on dad. But if he knows that I want him to tell me I love you why doesn't he do it. We co-sleep with our children but I don't think this has anything to do with us not sleeping together since this problem existed before then. I'm getting to the point where I feel if things don't change I'm going to want out of my marriage. Are these selfish things I'm asking. We are still young. Any advice would really help. I feel like one day I'm just going to be over trying to get him to want to make love to me.

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Yes, these are selfish things that you are asking.

If I understand you, your complaints are:

1. You don't have enough sex.
2. He doesn't say "I love you" first.

Right? You also co-sleep with your kids, he's a wonderful husband who shows you his love through his actions, and if things don't change you're going to want out of your marriage.

You are half the chemistry in the sex department and what used to be flirtation and play has become an obligation. I understand that you are frustrated after repeated requests to him, and you probably feel that you have done every reasonable thing to get him to do what you want. That's probably a big part of the problem. You are trying to choreograph his behavior, and that's a huge turn off.

You ask, "if he knows that I want him to tell me I love you why doesn't he do it." He probably feels "This is how I show my love; it's how I was raised. Why won't she accept and respect that?"

You feel "horrible about this all of the time....undesired and unwanted," not because he mistreats you or ignores you, but because he doesn't give you the signals you want and doesn't initiate sex often enough. He probably has given you a hundred signals that you don't interpret as love.

You think "yada yada yada" when he tells you how he grew up. He probably thinks "after 9 years together, maybe we could understand each other better."

Invite him; don't demand of him. Take the pressure off. Read one of Byron Katie's books.

Tao

I think that you're too stuck on what YOU want.

Look at his actions. He nurtures you and probably shows you in a hundred ways how he loves you. You just can't see it because you're so focused on wanting a particular thing that it has blinded you to anything else.

Give the poor guy a break. Why don't you create the environment where you can have more sex initiated by him and why don't you tell him that you love him, without expectation of a response. You may be surprised at what will happen.

Finally, take a step back and look at what you have. You sound really lucky to me - begin by believing that your glass is half full, rather than half empty. If you change your perspective, the dynamic between your husband and you may well shift.

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Originally Posted by JacquelineM

My husband and I have been together for 9 years, married for almost 4. We have two beautiful children a 2 yr old and a 4 month old. The first two years we were dating we had sex all of the time. The last 7 years it feels like it is not happening enough. I understand that relationships go through stages, but I feel horrible about this all of the time. I feel undesired and unwanted. He also never says I love you first. He'll answer me if I tell him. This also really bothers me. When I ask him about this he says well my parents weren't real affectionate with us, we never said I love you, yada yada yada. He says honey I show you love you all the time with my actions. Which he does. He is a wonderful husband, he's a very hands on dad. But if he knows that I want him to tell me I love you why doesn't he do it. We co-sleep with our children but I don't think this has anything to do with us not sleeping together since this problem existed before then. I'm getting to the point where I feel if things don't change I'm going to want out of my marriage. Are these selfish things I'm asking. We are still young. Any advice would really help. I feel like one day I'm just going to be over trying to get him to want to make love to me.

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Well, that IS a big problem, particularly with the 2 year old, that one should be sleeping in their own room... less so with the 4 month old.

It will kill what remains of his libido. I think there is a combination of things taking place here... the first of which I seem to read into this that he was always not the touchy feely type... why women expect people to change to suit their desires is beyond me. People never change unless there is a life threatening event.

Now... besides the obvious commotion of a 2 year old toddler, and a 4 month old infant will take a real toll on amourous feelings for most guys. If he percieves any nagging... and I say HE PERCIEVES nagging whether you really are that will kill it, then there is the issue with many women of the " Damn this has gotten boring" from his perspective. Where there is a very limited menu available for him to choose from... in bed, if it is always rushed because of kids... if he hears screaming kids when you try to do it is another libido killer for many guys.

You have to work at keeping sex exciting long before it has a chance to get stale. And while there will be a few women reading this that are sure to get all huffy when I say this. (and no I am not pointing any fingers). If all he ever gets do do is missionary... thats boring... if there is never anal... thats damn boring... if he never gets oral... thats incredibly boring.

You have to mix it up... yeah with kids the oportunities are somewhat restricted, but you can workd around that. And yes, I've known some painfully boring women, thank god I never married any of them.

Now there is a flip side to that as well, He has to be willing to mix it up as well, this is not a one way street and I know from women's comments that a few guys can be painfully boring as well even when they try to be exciting. Its not a gender specific issue.


Reviving stalled relationship is going to take a LOT more work and may actually need counseling. But he needs to be willing to work on it, and you have to be willing to hear something you may not want to hear.

But people are who they are and personalities follow a person through their entire life. Its important you date someone long enough to get to know them well enough. And no it is IMPOSSIBLE to get to know someone that well in less than several years, much less several months.

And if it isn't right its likely to never be right. That's what dating is about... finding things out before marriage and kids complicate things.

You have to accept certain things about his personality because you knew he was this way before you married. And remember marriage isa TWO way street. Yeah you can demand certain things... but so can he.

Just wanted to say thank you to those of you who have answered. You have given me lots to think about.

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Originally Posted by JacquelineM

Just wanted to say thank you to those of you who have answered. You have given me lots to think about.

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That's a good place to start... taking a step back and looking at the problem objectively. Its easy to get myopic in certain circumstances. Many of us have caught ourselves in that situation from time to time. Many times that's all it will take to identify some issues to work on.

There is nothing wrong with co sleeping with your children. I did this until my daughter was 5 years old (she is now in her own room) and no one suffered because of it.

While it does make it more difficult to be intiment with each other, its not impossible. What we did, was we set up a day, once a week, when my daughter would have a fun exciting 'camp out' in the other room. We got her a fun little pop up tent and a nice princess sleeping bag (can be subsituted for Cars or dinosaurs hehe) and a flashlight and all the other camping goodies. Made marshmellow smores in the microwave, and she slept in the extra room (which is now her room, which I believe also made it easier for her to transition) that was the night my husband and I made love.


As for your marriage issues, you need to remember a marriage is not 50/50. Its 100/100. He is giving his all, and its not good enough for you. (at least that's what it seems like to me) your on the right track. Think about it. And talk to your husband about your feelings. And explain to him why you feel the way you feel. Communication is important.

Good luck hon.

OOoooo och ouch ouch. 5 years old, straight from sleeping with mom to Kindergarten. Man that's a shock to his growing up. And yeah, I've heard of women still breastfeeding kids old enough to read books... I don't think much of that either.

I don't remember being three, but I do still rememebr at 47 a LOT about when I was 5, as in names faces events, and can still visualise a lot of stuff from then vividly. And a few things from when I was 4.

Just my pesonal opinion.. nothing more.

I knew a woman that would rather sleep with her 2 year old son, (at the time I last spoke to her) than her husband who thought it was time he learned to sleep alone... and usually did.

Don't know how well that kid turned out, but I know she had a whole host of issues herself.

There was a news report here a while back and there was a mother who was breast feeding her 11 year old... that's right eleven.
My brother was still in with my parents until he was 4 in his own single bed.

I would want the child to sleep on their own as soon as possible.

Like Smoothy said, it's just opinion though.

Time for an honest, down-to-earth discussion about the whole situation. Lay it on the table and be honest with him without getting defensive. If he was initially sexually interested in you, despite his upbringing, then I think there's something else going on here.

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Read one of Byron Katie's books.

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Fill us in about the work of Byron Katie.

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Originally Posted by s_cianci

Fill us in about the work of Byron Katie.

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Byron Katie is a woman with a very liberating philosophy and a method for dismantling suffering-inducing beliefs about oneself. She was once legally blind, morbidly obese, and had cancer, and she has worked through all that. She travels the world doing workshops, writing books with her husband, and having a good time helping people get free from unnecessary suffering.

I have found her concepts to be very useful in my professional counseling work. Her method is based on four questions she poses about self-limiting beliefs.

e.g. Belief: My husband no longer loves me.

Questions (my paraphrasing):

Is it true? (Just posing this question, I find that almost half of negative beliefs fall away.)
Can you absolutely know that it is true? (Another third don't stand up to this scrutiny.)
How does this belief effect you? (People realize the negative power they exercise against themselves by holding onto the belief in question.)
What would your life be like without this belief in it? (People imagine being free from that negative influence. This envisioning makes it easier to get there.)

I have only read A Thousand Names for Joy, but her other books look good.

Amazon.com: byron katie

Katie on Oprah:

Byron Katie on Oprah's Soul Series Webcast - Oprah.com

If you are a reader, I also recommend James Hollis, who describes the human psyche really well in layperson's terms and presents a path to real maturity. Super high recommendation for anyone wanting to understand the human condition...

Amazon.com: Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life: How to Finally, Really Grow Up: James Hollis: Books

Enjoy!

Tao

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Originally Posted by smoothy

OOoooo och ouch ouch. 5 years old, straight from sleeping with mom to Kindergarten. Man thats a shock to his growing up. And yeah, I've heard of women still breastfeeding kids old enough to read books...I don't think much of that either.

I don't remember being three, but I do still rememebr at 47 a LOT about when I was 5, as in names faces events, and can still visualise a lot of stuff from then vividly. And a few things from when I was 4.

Just my pesonal opinion.. nothing more.

I knew a woman that would rather sleep with her 2 year old son, (at the time I last spoke to her) than her husband who thought it was time he learned to sleep alone....and usually did.

Don't know how well that kid turned out, but I know she had a whole host of issues herself.

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You misunderstood a bit. She stopped sleeping with me last year when she turned 5. she will be starting school next month, and turning 6 in a month and a half. So she has been in her own room with no problems for a year now.

I understand that many people don't agree with this. And I respect that. :) no worries. I was against it as well until I had my daughter and it just sort of happened. :P


And as for the breastfeeding thing, I quit breast feeding when she was 2 and I think its rediculas breastfeeding for so long.

Thanks to a late in the cycle birthday I actually started kindergarten at 4 and First grade at 5, actually started college at 17 and had to have parents sign the papers because I couldn't legally do it yet...

Yeah, I'm one of those people who think a kid should get their own room as soon as they are old enough to sleep through the night. Like you said though... lots of differing opinions on that topic.

I didn't personally know any of those people who wouldn't wean the kids off the breast... but those I have heard of almost nauseated me listening to excuses for still doing it when the kid is 7 or older... think it was a program on TV I saw... I don't remember for certain but I think there was one obviously strange woman I seem to remember getting her panties in a knot about people complaining about her breastfeeding a 11 year old, did she plan to stop when he could grow a mustach? I can just imagine what sorts of issues THAT family has...

Yeah... 2 is a reasonible point even to me. When they are able to ask for the boob in a cohearant sentence that's about the time they started learning to use a training cup. (cup with a sipper lid).

I do generally feel for you, it is hard to take when you feel like you are being constantly pushed away.
I agree that you both need to talk about what you realistically expect from your sex life, we as women are generally catagorised as feigning headaches or needing to wash our hairs to get out of sex, but sometimes it is the men that make the excuses and it can be a bitter pill to swallow when your partner doesn't want to take you in their arms.
Perhaps the children in your bedroom put him off, especially if he struggles with being intimate an audience is not going to help matters.
Why don't you arrange some date nights, send the kids to grandmas and re create some of the magic that first drew you to each other, relationships are not easy, especially when kids are thrown into the mix.
And if all else fails and you really can't be in a relationship where sex isn't a main priority then maybe you should move on and allow you and your partner to find happiness with someone who would suit you better.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Yeah, I'm one of those people who think a kid should get their own room as soon as they are old enough to sleep through the night. Like you said though...lots of differing opinions on that topic.

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I do agree, the problem is, my daughter slept through the night as soon as she came home, and she was in the crib in her room. But at 2 years old or so, she stopped sleeping through the night. No nightmares, no night terrors, no fears of the dark, nothing. Just wanted to sleep with mommy and daddy. She didn't sleep at all in her room, but she would get plenty of sleep if she was in bed with us (that also includes my husband getting plenty of sleep when he needs to go to work the next day)

She is still working on it even at 5. the doctor says its normal I guess. But she just doesn't sleep full nights.



I am SO sorry to the OP for the thread stealing! I am going to stop. If anyone else wants to talk to me about this (you can question me, or tell me I'm wrong, or anything no worries :) I'm good with any kind of talk, be it good or bad) you can email me or private message me :)

Mr. SMOOTHY, I think you're so defensive about kids being breastfed and sleeping with their parents because maybe you were weaned to early (-: I know that's why my two year old is still in bed with us. I breastfed him until I got pregnant with my 4 month old.

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Originally Posted by pinkfreckles

i do generally feel for you, it is hard to take when you feel like you are being constantly pushed away.
i agree that you both need to talk about what you realistically expect from your sex life, we as women are generally catagorised as feigning headaches or needing to wash our hairs to get out of sex, but sometimes it is the men that make the excuses and it can be a bitter pill to swallow when your partner doesnt want to take you in their arms.
perhaps the children in your bedroom put him off, especially if he struggles with being intimate an audience is not going to help matters.
why dont you arrange some date nights, send the kids to grandmas and re create some of the magic that first drew you to each other, relationships are not easy, especially when kids are thrown into the mix.
and if all else fails and you really can't be in a relationship where sex isnt a main priority then maybe you should move on and allow you and your partner to find happiness with someone who would suit you better.

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Wow, I have to say that this is wonderful advice. I hadn't even thought about having a date night . Before we had kids my husband and I used to go out all the time to dinner and a movie or we would spend the night salsa dancing. I'm going to try this because I really do miss my husband.

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Originally Posted by JacquelineM

Mr. SMOOTHY, I think you're so defensive about kids being breastfed and sleeping with their parents because maybe you were weaned to early (-: I know thats why my two year old is still in bed with us. I breastfed him until I got pregnant with my 4 month old.

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School age kids have no business being breast fed. If they can ask for the boob in full sentanses... they are too old... they are also too old to be sleeping every night in their parents bed as well.

That definitely is getting into the range of child abuse or contributing to the deliquency at least. Once a kid is old enough for solid food, they don't NEED breast fed. Incidentally I am not maladjusted.

Being breastfed at age 2 is not child abuse its what the World Health Organization and UNICEF recommend. They also don'd say stop at 2 they say until at least 2 years old. No they don't need breastmilk at age 2 but that doesn't mean that it isn't helping them with their immunity or helping prevent them from having all sort of diseases! Not to mention the bond that the mother and child are still having. A kid doesn't NEED lot of things but that doesn't mean that they won't benefit from them.