Hi,

I am buying a newly built home. I have a deadline June 19/2009 to submit all the upgrades.

I am not that technical savvy; I have couple of questions about the internet connections.

Builder is providing CAT 5 connections to all bedrooms and kitchen. In the model home I saw a phone outlet so I asked in the design center about the internet wiring. They said that 'Phone Jacks are compatible with Ethernet connections, you can plug either a computer cable in them or a phone jack, and they are dual connectors'. I didn't understand what they meant by that.

I am planning to give the rooms for rent to students from Sept -April, once I move into the new home. I would like to have phone connections and internet connections to all the rooms.

In this situation if I use the phone jack for the phone, how can use the internet?

I prefer to have wired internet in all the rooms. Later if needed I can make it into a wireless.

I am currently with Rogers internet provider which is a cable based. I called their customer service and asked them if I can use the same phone jack for the internet. They said that I can’t use the phone jack for the internet because of the number of pins.

Anybody have a solution to this problem?

The other option I am looking into is asking the builder to pre-wire each room with the Ethernet cable and bring all the wires into the basement. I can use the Rogers modem from cable to connect to the router, from router to all the rooms through pre-wired connections in the basement. I am planning to live in this house for at least 15years; so if I want to do pre-wiring what's the best way to go about it CAT 5 or CAT 5e?

Please help me.

Thank you so much in advance.

First, do a search on "structured wiring".

The BEST way to handle this is to run a low voltage flexible conduit to each location. Then wires can be upgraded if necessary.

The current recommendstion has been 2 RG6's and two CAT 5E or CAT 6 cables to each location. Fiber hasn't caught on yet. This is available as a single bundled cable.

Chech out Home Page - HomeTech Solutions and search for "structured wiring"

Some 8 pin connectors used for Ethernet can be used to plug in 6 conductor phone cords without damage and the telephone cable has access to 3 pairs.

There are devices out there that will split a 8 conductor cable into 4 phone connections if desired. This is really the current state of the art.

In larger buildings, the lines from each room are brought to a "patch panel". From there you can wire jumpers to a switch or a phone line.

The problem comes when you want to select a particular line to be line #1 or you have 2 line phones to deal with. In the structured wiring panel, there is usually a telephone patch panel that includes an RJ31x jack for alarm systems and it re-arranges some of the lines and you pck what's needed.

You could, get a large patch panel for all the ethernet cables and then a smaller panel where you wire it with "insert jacks" where the first is the RJ31x and all the other jacks are wired in a parallel fashion.

You could then make all patches with say a "blue cable" which is straight through or say a "red cable" that has a non-standard pin arrangement.

So, then the options are to do it at the jacks or do it at the patch panel.

In a large building, what usually happens is that the wires from the house are placed on a 110 block for each location and then cross connects connect to the lines.

You have options.

The best option would be two Cat 6, 2 RG-6, 2 fiber run as a single cable and a low voltage flex conduit to each location for upgrades.

You can opt for a "structured wiring" pre-made solution or engineer your own. Enclosed, not enclosed or a piece of plywood on a wall.

The important part is to run Everything to a central location.

A lot of stuff can be put on Cat5E or CAT 6 these days, that two CAT5's may not be enough especially for the main TV room.

I hope I answered your question. I can provide links to examples, if needed, I think.

Quote:

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They said that 'Phone Jacks are compatible with Ethernet connections, you can plug either a computer cable in them or a phone jack, and they are dual connectors'.

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Ethernet jacks and phone jacks are two separate incompatible standards. The only way it could be a dual connector jack is if there were two separate jacks on the same plate.

I totally disagree. My reference:

On-Q Product - RJ-45 Data/Phone Jack (5-Pack), White (F3450-WH-V5)

Using RJ45's for phone is a NEW standard.

Either phone or data connections can be made to the jack. The application depends on what and how it's wired.

Note in this linke which is a 110 Punch down panel for PHONE, there are 8 lines:

http://www.hometech.com/hts/products....html#CV-C0221

I think the OP would be hard pressed to go into Walmart and buy a phone with an RJ45 connector. I see those connectors you speak of all over offices but not in residential.

Here is yet another product:

SP140 (A1200P RJ45 to RJ11 splitter) :: Asterisk / IP PBX Hardware :: Asterisk Cards, VoIP Products, Open Source Telephony Equipment, Channel banks, IP Phones and more - PBXEQ.com

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KeepItSimpleStupid

Here is yet another product:

SP140 (A1200P RJ45 to RJ11 splitter) :: Asterisk / IP PBX Hardware :: Asterisk Cards, VoIP Products, Open Source Telephony Equipment, Channel banks, IP Phones and more - PBXEQ.com

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Yep, that's VOIP/PBX, not home use.

Edit to add: Hobby Flower, are you using Rogers Home phone? If you are now are you using the same phones as before the switch to Rogers or did you have to get different ones?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Yep, that's VOIP/PBX, not home use.

edit to add: Hobby Flower, are you using Rogers Home phone? If you are now are you using the same phones as before the switch to Rogers or did you have to get different ones?

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I am using the rogers home phone and I am using the same phone. They connected the cable to a telephone modem (lack of terminology) and I connected my phone to the modem with the regular telephone cable wire.

I always wondered how they did it. :) I'm in Canada too and have my cable through Rogers and phone through Aliant. Rogers inundates me with Home Phone marketing, the bastards.

Does that mean that you would no longer use the standard phone jacks in your house? You have to have the phone near a Rogers modem?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I always wondered how they did it. :) I'm in Canada too and have my cable through Rogers and phone through Aliant. Rogers inundates me with Home Phone marketing, the bastards.

Does that mean that you would no longer use the standard phone jacks in your house? You have to have the phone near a Rogers modem?

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Right now I live in a 1 Bedroom apartment. So my wireless phone base is connected to rogers modem. This phone set has 2 phones, 1 base and 1 extra phone. So for now I have the phone near the rogers modem.
Now I am moving into a house. That's where the issues are coming up. I want to have Phone and internet in all the bedrooms, internet in the living room and phone in the kitchen.

It looks like it's all tied to the Rogers modem. I guess a base station by the modem and satellites throughout the house would work. As for wiring your house: it you always plan to stay with this cable provider than the jacks all over serve no purpose other than possibly have a wired internet network though most people just go wireless now. If you possibly might revert back to telco for phone, or to keep the resale value, you might to consider having a minimum number of rj11 regular phone jacks installed with the wiring all leading down to a central spot in the basement for a possible telco hookup in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

It looks like it's all tied to the Rogers modem. I guess a base station by the modem and satellites throughout the house would work. As for wiring your house: it you always plan to stay with this cable provider than the jacks all over serve no purpose other than possibly have a wired internet network though most people just go wireless now. If you possibly might revert back to telco for phone, or to keep the resale value, you might to consider having a minimum number of rj11 regular phone jacks installed with the wiring all leading down to a central spot in the basement for a possible telco hookup in the future.

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Thank you so much for your help. While talking to you I realized that I am only hooking up to 1 phone jack in my apartment. I will call Rogers tonight and find out how I can have phone in all the rooms. May be if their phone modem is connected to rest of the phone wiring in the basement:confused:. I have no clue about Telco. I will look into it if it serves my purpose.

As for the jacks and your new house, you might as well get the regular phone jacks installed. Most home networks are wireless these days.

NeedKarma:

Your missing the point ENTIRELY. With the RJ45 8C8P jack specified, an RJ11 6C2P, RJ14 6C4P and an RJ25 6C6P will plug into the RJ45 jack with no problems. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO HAVE A 6 PIN CONNECTOR FOR THE PHONE.
6C6P means 6 contact 2 position. RJ actually refers to a wiring standard.

In fact, if line #1 is used, there is no conflict with Ethernet either.

So, you can access 3 lines or pairs with a 6 conductor cable.

This product: USOC Splitter, 8x8 Plug / 4 (6x2) Jacks - ECS402-12

Can be used to access each line individually with 6 conductor jacks from a 10" RJ45 pigtail plug.

I put togeteher this example for fun:

Suppose that:
L1 is a VOIP main line for the residence
L2 is a VOIP business line
L3 is a POTS FAX line which has DSL service
L4 is the nakes DSL line

Now suppose you want the following connections:

Den L1, L2 with a 2-line phone
Kit L1 & L2 with a two line phone
Bed L1
Office L2 and a Fax (L3) machine
Den Fax (L3) line for a sattellite system
RJ31x on L3 for an alarm system

Most FAX machines and alarm systems won't work with VOIP unoless the baud rate is restricted.

You can arrange things such that when a 6C4P plug is plugged into the Dena and Kitchen, both L1 and L2 are available with the 2 line phone without any adapters.

When a 6P2C plug is used in the bedrrom plugged into the RJ45, it has access to Line #1

For the office, you would need the adapter from l-com. The RJ45 from the adapter goes into the wall and each phone goes into L2 and Fax 6 conductor ports respectively.

For the satellite system, the adapter would be used as well.

At the other end:

The DSL splitter would be in the NID with the naked line on line #4 and the POTS service transferred to L2.

L2 would need an RJ31x jack to interface with an alarm system. This jack is special because with the jack unplugged it routes the input tot the output. With a plug, plugged into the jack, line seizure can occur.

The VOIP boxes need a way to get the wires to the distribution bus. L2 and L3 are already wired. If it was me, I would dedicate a line directly to the DSL modem and not make it available everywhere in the house.

Now, I'm going to throw a wrench in the fan for a moment. Suppose I installed a PERS (Personal Emergency Response System) which is pendant based that calls 911 through an alarm system.

The monitoring system has to be located in a central place which happens to be the bedroom. If I want the system to have line seizure capabilities, I'd have to install a RJ31x Keystone jack in the bedroom, so this is where some wiring changes wouold have to occur.

You can then see where some systems might become inflexible.

Verizon FIOS requires an RG6 and Ethernet connection at each TV.

Now there are home automation systems that may require an IR repeater. So with Ethernet taken up, the phone line taken uo (Sat system), there isn't anything left to to IR repeating.

This is where a central wiring location AND low voltage flex conduit comes in hand to add any additional wires needed.

THE BUILDER IS CORRECT THAT ONLY RJ45 JACKS NEED TO BE INSTALLED FOR BOTH PHONE AND DATA.

The proper jacks are designed such that pins don't get bent when the wrong plug is inserted. That's the major difference.

It's new technology. Embrace it.

Here is an example of the flexible low voltage raceway called Resi-gard. Conduits & Raceways - HomeTech Solutions

The color is orange. Flex conduit for high voltage is blue.

Watch out for home automation systems like lighting controllers that also may need CAT5E or CAT6.

If this was a new home, I would have also wired the switches with 12/3 or 14/3, so that a neutral is available at the switch location. A lot of automation products are requiring a neutral at the switch.

The VOIP system will have a REN associeted with it. REN stands for Ringer Equlivelence Number. The REN should be on all the phones. It cannot exceed the REN available on the VOIP box.

3 is a usual number.

5 is a usual number for land lines.

Most ringers are solid state, these days and draw power from the wall, so the REN of most phones is really low.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KeepItSimpleStupid

NeedKarma:

Your missing the point ENTIRELY. With the RJ45 8C8P jack specified, an RJ11 6C2P, RJ14 6C4P and an RJ25 6C6P will plug into the RJ45 jack with no problems. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO HAVE A 6 PIN CONNECTOR FOR THE PHONE.
6C6P means 6 contact 2 position. RJ actually refers to a wiring standard.

In fact, if line #1 is used, there is no conflict with Ethernet either.

So, you can access 3 lines with a 6 conductor cable.

This product: USOC Splitter, 8x8 Plug / 4 (6x2) Jacks - ECS402-12

can be used to access each line individually with 6 conductor jacks from a 10" RJ45 pigtail plug.

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Totally agree. The RJ-45 connector for Ethernet uses pins 1,2,3 and 6. The center two (pins 4 and 5) which are the blue pair, were left as the standard for telco use. When the wall jack is punched down for use as phone with an RJ-11 connection, the RJ-45 equivalent pins 3/6 (green pair) and 4/5 (blue pair) are used. Otherwise, it is punched down to a patch panel for use as computer with all 8 wires in use. The same wiring can carry EITHER signal but not BOTH at the same time and adhere to gigabit ethernet standards.

I wired my house with RJ-6 Coax for video and RJ-45 CAT5e (before CAT6 was available) to be used for either phone or data. Also, about the video, use RJ6. It is more expensive but is made for higher quality digital signals.

Service loops are left at the wiring closet so that you have the flexibility of being able to reassign wiring for voice or data as required.

Typo:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chuckhole

use RJ6

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RG6 or RG6 quad shield. The next level up is RG-11

I hope the builder ran cat 5e for the phone and data. I know in new construction the "bundled cable" most commonly has 2 rg6 and 2 cat 5e cable, I even installed some with fiber in it! I still think that guy was crazy but money talks.