My wife had an emotional and physical affair about a year and a half ago. We are still married and continue w/ marriage counselling. She has long ago gotten over what she did and I would be too if not for just two things.

The first is that, while I'm 90% sure the affair has not continued in any fashion, my wife confesses that she does not love me and that she stays with me because of our kids and my financially providing for her (she has only recently begun working 15 hours a week). All the books about marriages surviving an affair go in with the assumption that both sides really do love each other. While I do love her still (despite what she did), little to nothing comes back.

The second thing is a matter of her "owning" what she did. While acknowledging that what she did was wrong and is sorry that she hurt me, she maintains to this day that a good part of what happened was my fault because I wasn't "giving her what she needed" (and apparently still am not now). Nobody except my brother knows what happened, certainly not her family (ie, mom, dad, brothers, etc). I never throw her "indiscretion" in her face, in fact I never bring it up ever. On occasion the topic still pops up during counselling, to which she still remains defensive. Were the situation reversed I know that whenever the topic happened to arise I would unashamedly accept full responsibility then again and again apologize for what I had done to our marriage and our family. Unfortunately, my wife is not strong enough in herself to face her own recriminations and to integrate within herself what she did, rather she wants the whole episode forgotten. I truly believe, if she were to do this, she would come out stronger and with more self respect and self worth. My attitude is that we can't change the past or what we did but that we can learn from what we've done so as to strive not to make the same or similar mistakes again.

Life is fairly "normal" again after these 18 months. However, I cannot seem to overlook that she has never truly appeared to regret what she did, despite her (almost grudging) apology she offered immediately afterwards. When directly asked by the counsellor, she confesses still that she really now longer loves me but doesn't want to divorce, that things are "good enough" as they are now. We've had a lot more sex since her affair that we did for many, many years prior to it, but it appears mostly to be "guilt" sex wherein she merely submits as a self imposed penance, atonement, or even self-punishment for what she did. She never initiates sex, claims that she is really not interested (despite a nearly guaranteed orgasm for herself), and pretty much does everything she can to get it over with as fast a possible. This, of course, is painful for me but not to the point of my not having as much sex with her as I can. Strangely, I am still willing to do pretty much anything that would make her happy, including romance, foreplay, doing whatever sexual activity she might desire, making our lovemaking last a loooong time, but she turns me down in all of these regards. As I've told our counsellor (a woman, btw), I strongly sense that I am merely tolerated.

Again, I'm almost certain nothing of the affair has continued but she appears not to regret it having occurred. She confesses she feels little/nothing for me and merely does the minimum to meet what I express necessary to maintain our marriage. Thus, I'm left ever "wanting", knowing that I'm not ever going to have anything more (and probably much less in the future). Alas.

Thoughts?

I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. She sounds like a committed wife, but it's a bit misplaced. If she's not happy in the marriage, she should not stay in the marriage. She's stick around because she's settled and comfortable. She's not ready to go out on her own.

As for you, seems clear that you really love her and you're doing everything you can to get some feelings out of her.

You're sticking around because you're hopeful that she will come around eventually right? The fact is, she might never regain or gain the feelings that you are looking for. Are you prepared to remain in such a marriage? It almost sounds like a loveless marriage to me.

If you do not see any progress, you should consider separating. Maybe both of you will find happiness elsewhere, because it doesn't look like you will find it with each other.

I liked that you called it the 'zombie' marriage - I had visions of the 'Night of the Living Dead' movie...

I feel really sad for you, because your marriage sounds like the living dead as well. The soulless emotional and sexual connection that you describe will, I think, be soul destroying in the end for both of you. She's just going through the motions and even though she has orgasms and you try your hardest to be a great lover, it's all superficial with no deeper connection on her part.

I fear that the more energy you put into it, and the more you yearn for more from her - the harder she will pull away from you. Somehow the affair has closed her off emotionally and even though she has 'got over' the affair, she has not got over blaming you for not giving her what she needs. Hence her refusal to express regret or apologize.

Unfortunately, you can't make another person change - they can only change themselves. It sounds as if she's quite clearly saying she no longer wants an emotional or sexual connection with you. This isn't a marriage and if the situation is allowed to continue her 'tolererance' will turn to distaste and your love into resentment.

Speak to your counsellor - I think that you both need to move on and find what you seek elsewhere, because the connection between you has died.

I'm really sorry because it sounds as if you care for her and have really tried.

The fact that she shows no regret over her affair shows she doesn't really see what she did as wrong, meaning she is likely to do it again. She cheated because you didn't give her what she needed and you still are not, again indicating that she will do it again. She no longer feels a strong emotional bond with you so will look for one else where.

She doesn't love you but loves the lifestyle you provide for her, she is using you to live comfortably.

I believe that, whilst it should not affect the balance in the marriage long term, a person should never be able to feel that they have completely made up for their affair. (unless the other spouse has an affair as well)
Your wife seems to think that she has completely made up for hers just by an apology and some quilt sex (which it seems she makes no real effort in.)

I would advise getting a divorce.
Even if she remains loyal to you from now on, this will always be a loveless marriage to her, things will not improve and it will only make both you and her miserable. And this will have a much worse affect on your children long term than you getting divorced.

Thanks to each of you for weighing in on my dilima, I'm very touched by the empathy expressed, the effort required to write such detailed responses, and for the sound advice.

Each of you sum up the situation succinctly and give bold recommendations. My conscience is clear in that I have literally done 95% of everything possible to make our marriage good (the last 5% includes things such as allowing her to continue her affair, etc which I'm not going to allow). "Amusingly", at the end of each session, the counsellor gives us homework, i.e. behaviors to implement to improve our communication and relationship. Invariably she does none of these, changing her behavior not a nit or (at best) minimally, such that little progress is made from week to week there. She states that she is already doing everything that she feels comfortable doing, which of course leads the counsellor to point out that she must stretch/challenge her comfort zone in ways which will improve our marriage such that, behaviorally, they don't seem so alien. But, again, it appears that little effort is made, perhaps just a minuscule amount such that she can "truthfully" say she tried.

Again "amusingly", all of the things that she has been recommended by the counsellor to try are things that I would think any wife would strongly desire (or at least those that wish to have a happy, solid marriage). I'm talking about things like reciprocating a welcome home kiss, occasionally accepting a foot massage while watching TV, going to bed at the same time maybe once a week and cuddling or at least share some pillow talk. Any and all of these feel "invasive" to her, crowding and pressuring her in some way that she equates to being chased by a whimpering, whining little puppy. I certainly know the risk of doing exactly this and take special pains to avoid this... rather, I instead offer her repeated (yet only occasional) opportunities to engage in ways that could bring us closer, but as I've said these are typically deflected. She herself won't self-engage with me, apparently.

I don't know that I'm actually "unhappy" as much as I am frustrated at her behavior of almost intentionally driving a wedge between us. I sometimes think that there might possibly be somebody else "out there" with whom I could enjoy a richer life experience but I also recognize that many (older) divorced couples end up by themselves (especially after the kids have grown) and have their life continuously disrupted by having to deal regularly with the ex-spouse anyway (for the next 13 years, in my case). Separating does not really separate a couple with youngish children. Hence, I lean toward sticking it out in the hopes that something will jar an interest back into her for me. The odds are long, I know, but they're the best I have with the hand I'm dealt.

Additional thoughts are welcome and, again, many thanks for the support you so willingly provided.

Oops, I guess I never mentioned that we've been married for some 19 years and have two kids under the age of 10. Fwiw.

Get away from her influence guy, not for the kids or the marriage but for yourself. She has staked her claim, and is only going through the motions, and not doing the work required. Not Good, but out of your hands at this time.

I think its time to lay the cards on the table, and let her know (in counseling of course ) this situation is intolerable for you, and your leaving with the idea of making it permanent. Then back up the talk, with the actions. You leave.

She does, what she does because you allow it, with no consequenses, and no matter the time spent, or the family you have made, somewhere things got derailed, and she is unwilling to work with you, nor communicate so you can work it out. You going to counseling while commendable, falls short of being able to fix things over time, just because it takes two. You really need to regroup, rethink, and re-evaluate the facts without her influence.

Sorry guy, but YOU need the time, not her. Sometimes, to move forward, you have to step back, and see some reality.

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Originally Posted by jledwards666

I don't know that I'm actually "unhappy" as much as I am frustrated at her behavior of almost intentionally driving a wedge between us.

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At least she's been honest with you, that she doesn't really care about the marriage, so she's only putting in minimal effort. It's extremely unfair to you, because you have to do your part and make up her lack of effort too. So it's becoming a one way relationship. You will definitely continue to feel fustrated with this kind of arrangement.

What we're saying is, there's no reason for you to live in such an unhealthy relatoinship. You can definitely find happiness elsewhere.

Jledwards666, I think that talaniman summarizes the thinking very succinctly.

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I think its time to lay the cards on the table, and let her know (in counseling of course ) this situation is intolerable for you, and your leaving with the idea of making it permanent. Then back up the talk, with the actions. You leave.

She does, what she does because you allow it, with no consequenses, and no matter the time spent, or the family you have made, somewhere things got derailed, and she is unwilling to work with you, nor communicate so you can work it out. You going to counseling while commendable, falls short of being able to fix things over time, just because it takes two. You really need to regroup, rethink, and re-evaluate the facts without her influence.

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What you describe in your relationship - which has been a long one by all accounts - is disrespect and disdain from her. She even treats the counselling sessions with ill-disguised but subtle contempt. These are not the actions of a woman that is happy. I wonder why she stays and what locks you together in this empty dance?

I believe that staying in a relationship with the hope that the other person, at some time in the future, may change is not sustainable. It may be for a while. But you have been trying for a while haven't you? Doing what you are doing means that your wife is the one who has the 'power' in the relationship, because she can essentially make no effort at all and knows that there are no consequences from you.

Is this what you REALLY want from a marriage? Do you really believe that this is emotionally and spiritually sustainable?

T's suggestion of making your feelings known and clear in the counselling situation is excellent. It means that you have a mediating influence and you will be in a situation where you will be heard.

Don't accept the hand you have been dealt. Deal yourself another hand. Make a decision to do what is healthy, emotionally and spiritually, for yourself.

I admire you for trying so hard. The counselling especially. Sometimes that really tells the tale, when you put forth such an effort, you see how sincere and dedicated the partners are in changing themselves, to make the marriage work.

To be honest, I thought when I first read your post, it crossed my mind that maybe it is you that have not forgiven her. That she cannot express remorse, does not mean that she doesn't indeed feel remorseful.

Counselling too is not a finite set of excercises that work with both parties, in all circumstances. If she's not comfortable doing some of the excercises, that does not mean that she has given up, or that something else may not work better. Her lack of success showing a lack of progress, doesn't mean necessarily that she is not trying. Comfort zones are different for everybody.

Very often by the time couples reach counselling, a crisis has already happened. With the affair your wife had, that was the starting point, but it's really in the middle. There was a history long before the other man came along, and then the aftermath when the affair was over and the rebuilding started. The entire 20 years doesn't revolve around the affair.

What was it like before the affair. 20 years is a long time to invest in a relationship, for both of you. What were some of the things that caused this distance between the two of you before the affair. Did you both let go of each other emotionally along the way? Needs not being met by one party or the other?

I am not saying the affair was the right thing to do, but it was a result of something. Happily married couples don't go looking for trouble, or go looking to have their needs met if there aren't any problems to begin with.

One person might have an affair, another might turn to drugs/alcohol, another might spend time at the bars, or casino's etc. Things break down, and directions become somewhat selfish and self gratifying. But there are reasons for that.

Clearly you have been onboard with the counselling, and you are trying your best to get your marriage back on track, your efforts are obvious, after the affair.

But, just challenging you a bit with what role you could have played in the months, or years prior to the affair happening. Maybe nothing at all. I am just curious as to how you would have summarized your relationship before it resulted in an affair.

You folks are all top notch! Thanks again for the saged advice.

To answer Jake (and some of the others), our marriage had indeed "lagged" before my wife's affair. Her view, however, was apparently much more dire at that time than mine was, this having been revealed and assessed at length during our subsequent counselling sessions. I knew that she and I had both kind of gone into "cruising" mode since our kids entered the picture. I had, in fact, cautioned her before our deciding finally to have kids that children very often serve as a wedge between a couple, and this certainly proved to be true in our case. Before kids things were much better between us, but I'm not sure if this is because we were younger, more active, and newer in our marriage at that time (although we had already been married for 10 years by that time).

Its frustrating to me that she explains (in couselling after her affair) that she had simply "given up" on my providing her what she wanted. She had a list of my failings that I was not wholely or even very aware of. This was (and is) frustrating for me because I knew for years before hand that things had decayed between us (or at least her for me) and very frequently would come out and directly ask her, in a non-confrontation manner and with great sincerity, what I could do to increase her happiness with me and our relationship. She invariably would say "nothing". Certainly these things came out after her fling and we got into counselling, but I go crazy thinking how so much of this could have been avoided had she been forthcoming all those years ago rather than holding back and not letting me know what she thought were the problems. In retrospect, I can see how I was not fully/adaquately addressing these things that troubled her, but I was unaware of them and she would not comment (or at least not plainly) when I would inquire directly, which helped nobody. Unfortunately she is one of the many women who play the game of "If I'm unhappy then a good husband would know why... I shouldn't have to say anything"; she was (and still somewhat is) fond of adopting "the silent treatment" when she was unhappy about something I did or didn't do, even when I would ask her about it.

My suggestions for counselling years ago, my attempts to clearly understand in what ways I was not satisfying her, my attempts to maintain her love for me (flowers, dinners, etc)... all were dismissed when offered. Such a waste and look where it led her (and us).

Communications are better now, but I am unfortunately conflict avoidant while she self-admittedly has a bit of a temper (not physically but gets extremely defensive when I would try to point out something I didn't like that she did, immediately coming back with "well, you did this and that!"). Constructive discussions were not possible with her before her affair (except those that she had for me, which were many). Its still difficult for her to get feedback on how I feel she's doing in trying to improve our relationship, despite the skill with which I deliver my "sh!t sandwich" (ie, a positive comment, followed by a negative comment re the behavior I'd like her to change, followed by another positive comment).

Again, I have a clear conscience in knowing that I'm doing 90-95% of all that I can do (or at least know of). When asked how she would grade herself in this regard (during couselling), she gets quite defensive and avoidant. Oy.

So, I keep slogging. I will consider the advice from all of you, yeah leaving is certainly an option. But, as has been pointed out, we're both comfortable in our existing lifestyle although neither is particularly "happy", but marginally "satisfied". I wish for more and will continue to work for such. Keep good thoughts for me/us.

Communications require two people who are willing. Mighty hard to know what's on someone's mind that doesn't tell you.

Sady I know to many people who are not happy within there relationship, and don't know how to be, but they tolerate each other, and never leave, or grow.

To hear this is heart breaking.
All I can offer you is this .

We all have our will to choose right from wrong and I am sure we should by that point know the difference .

I hate to tell you this but your wife sought or found a way to get her emotional needs met by someone else because you forgot her importance in your life. You are not responsible for her behavior, but you are for yours. Take a hard look in the mirror. Ask yourself what it is about you that your wife and women in general find & found attractive in you. Focus on those qualities. As difficult as it will be to forget your wife's affair, focus on forgiving and rebuilding. Listen to what she says without judgement, or critism, or anger. Show your support on a daily basis without constant recriminations. Bring out the good in you and your wife will response. How do I know it will work, it already has she married you remember. Try holding her up without chains, show love without smothering or demands, listen and actually hear what she says rather than watching the game.

If you cannot get past the affair, forgive in your heart, and rebuild yourself. No amount of counseling will ever do any good.