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-   -   My HOA Is Discriminating Against Me . How Can I fight Them? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=356580)

  • May 21, 2009, 09:45 PM
    Ga_Dog_Lover
    My HOA Is Discriminating Against Me . How Can I fight Them?
    I need advice

    I am a firsttime homeowner and I feel that I am being targeted by members of my HOA

    I purchased a foreclosure in a 12 unit development late 2008... it was a great deal and i had to buy it sight-unseen, but i knew the area and knew that it was a sure money making venture

    Well, as soon as I closed, my agent tried to get the keys for me and one member of the HOA told him "we are going to make his move-in very unpleasant since this was a foreclosure and we arent happy about that"

    Turns out this lady is a miserable human being. A few examples: over the last 5+ years she has filed complaint to other HOA board against members of other communities for various triavl matters, she has made up her own parking stickers/tickets and she applies them to cars on "our street" that she doesnt recognize (its reads something like "you are in violation of the 6th St parking code and will be towed in 24 hrs") ... and theres no code to begin with. She paints the curb yellow here to deter "foreign" parkers... you get the idea)

    the day i came to inspect the place (it was a dump) i was harrassed numerous times about the previous tenants missing HOA fees and how i was going to hgave to pay them, about how i can't have a pet over 30lbs (i had a puppy then), ettc etc

    I paid a $200 move in fee at closing to cover damages. After my renovations were complate i was told the HOA wasnt happy with the hallway and that they were just "going to bill me wahtever" when they decided the amount of damage. I told them i wasnt their ATM and to use the 200 i had already paid. They said they want to use it as my "move out fee" instead

    Well, my Homeowners insureance policy was cancelled a month after i moved in ... i dont know how that happened but nationwide had to look into it ... this was right after my agent sent them the necessary documants for my unit ... (shady)

    There are other owners who have large dogs. None of them have recieved an email, letter, or even a verbal assault in the hall. I have. I think this is due to the fact that a few of these ladies wanted to buy my unit and i got the contract. Also, they have a history of not gettign along with men in my building. Just saying ... it goes to pattern

    well now they are pushing to see me before the members of our community meet in june. they say if i dont meet before then they will turn the matter over to a thrid party ...

    All but one person in my section of the community likes my pupppy. He doesnt bark, hes docile in the house, and my neighbors think hes fine/quiet/not a bother/etc ...


    Also, my puppy has just finished level one of obedience school. Hes going to be certified as a therapy dog for the childrens cancer ward when the paper work comes through (soon) ... i have been told this will classify him as a "working animal" and will exempt him from their penaties...

    See as they have not said one thing to the other owners of "large" dogs, isnt this discrimination? What legal rights do i have? Its killing me that the only complaint (official) has come from our lunatic wannabe traffic cop in my building and she deemed there was a problem when she saw him about 2 months ago ... there were no complaints previous and he is a well behaved puppy.

    Here are the association documents and the latest email.











    Quote:



    5.

    No flags, kites or other elements that detract from the integrity of the building may be hung on the building or in windows that are in clear view from the street without prior consent of the board. Satellite dishes of any sort are not permitted on or around the building under any circumstances.
    6.

    Total number of dogs per residence is limited to one dog per unit. Dogs may not exceed 30 pounds fully grown. This includes dogs owned by residents and each resident's invited guests, as well as tenants. . For the comfort of all residents, it is the unit owners’ responsibility to minimize pet noise at all times. Only traditional household pets like dogs, cats, birds and fish are permitted. It is required that dogs be walked in the neighborhood, dogs are not allowed in the courtyard.not the courtyard, and the courtyard is not to be used for dogs to relieve themselves. Dogs are to be physically accompanied in the common areas at all times. including the courtyard. Owners are required to immediately pick up and properly dispose of dog excrement. Owners are responsible for any and all damage caused by pets, including landscaping.
    7.

    Residents who do no clean up after their pets or who allow their dogs in the courtyard will be fined $ 25 for the first violation, with fines increasing by $ 25 per violation. Unit owners are responsible for fines levied against their tenants.

    An area set aside for dogs to relieve themselves will be available soon in the service alley next to the building. Owners will be required to clean up after their dogs and dispose of excrement in the designated dog area of the service alley, just as with the rest of the property. There is also a dog park inside the local Park where dogs are allowed off-leash.




    Quote:

    Please note:

    We will be having a spring HOA meeting everyone invited 6/9, the board needs to sit down with you before then, earlier is better. Any Monday through Thursday after work is an option, we will make ourselves available.



    The HOA thought the issue was resolved when your puppy was not resident after the holidays, but now that he is back and quite a bit larger, the issue has to be resolved, hopefully in this meeting since the policy was in the listing, posted at the property and has been shared several more times since.



    If we can’t meet before the general meeting, the board will turn the matter over to an outside party. Since you are a first time owner, we would rather meet with you to go over why this particular policy came to be and how enforcement actions are undertaken, rather than starting the process with you possibly unaware of end results.



    I also have a favor to ask on behalf of the building – could you please not walk him in the landscaping? Before you bang your head against the wall, let me share with you that the HOA spent a good deal of money on the new landscaping ($1500) and the new landscape lights ($ 700) this spring to complete the last bit of the retaining wall replacement project (25k wall), and after 3 years of drought, we want to give the new plants every chance of growing as quickly as possible to cover up the basement windows and not break the new lights.



    The HOA has been flexible with the resident dogs doing their business in that little spot near the basement door and has offered now to 3 different sets of dog owners to work with them to build a dog walk area in the alley, but the new landscaping can’t take people and dogs walking in and around them every day, and as with other common areas, damage repair costs will be charged to the unit. I’m sure you had no idea how much money Simba is strolling in, hopefully knowing the scope of the investment you will be happy to make that accommodation. I will also ask Jaime to do the same, we have already lost one of the hawthorns and I’m sure she won’t want dead shrubs while her place is on the market.



    Speaking of, with Jaime’s unit going on the market at the end of this month, we want the best curb appeal possible, a quick sale at a good price is good for her and everyone else.



    Let me know when you can meet, we would be glad to discuss these things in person rather than email. Thanks!
  • May 22, 2009, 05:02 AM
    ScottGem

    Go to your vet and have the dog weighed, then have him give you a statement that a) the dog is under 30 pounds and b) is unlikley to grow to over 30 pounds. Then present that to the HOA along with clause 6.

    You don't mention if this woman is on the board of the HOA or not. If she isn't, then what she says doesn't matter. If she defaces property then she can be sued. If the street is a public thouroughfare maintained by city funds she can be fined for paiting the curbs.

    Bottomline is you need to adhere exactly to the HOA rules. And try to get whatever legal ammo you can to fight the other stuff.
  • May 22, 2009, 06:10 AM
    JudyKayTee

    Addressing the dog issue only - the rules are very clear. No dogs over 30 pounds. If you are forced to rehome your dog and others are not, yes, you are facing discrimination.

    For the bulk of this you need an Attorney. It is too lengthy, too complicated (in my eyes) for this Board.

    Please post your question once.
  • May 22, 2009, 08:25 AM
    Ga_Dog_Lover

    She is on the board

    What are the legal effects of the puppy being a "working dog" in the hospital setting

    I have had a few dogowners tell me he will be untouchable at that point... fact or fiction?

    Also, I purchased the unit as a foreclaosure and wasn't aware of the "large dog rule" they keep harping about... and if they are so determined to enforece this rule, why aren't they going after the other large dog owners and not just me?
  • May 22, 2009, 08:32 AM
    Ga_Dog_Lover

    One more thing: the bylaws never state a fine.

    There is a clear fine for not cleaning up poop, but no large dog fine...

    So will the board just convene and make up some crazy fine for me?

    How does thaty work?

    The fact that they aren't even talking or emailing other large dog owners (who happen to be women) infuriates me...
  • May 22, 2009, 09:02 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ga_Dog_Lover View Post
    she is on the board

    what are the legal effects of the puppy being a "working dog" in the hospital setting

    i have had a few dogowners tell me he will be untouchable at that point... fact or fiction?

    also, i purchased the unit as a foreclaosure and wasnt aware of the "large dog rule" they keep harping about ... and if they are so determined to enforece this rule, why arent they going after the other large dog owners and not just me?


    If the rules say "no dog over 30 pounds," then it's no dogs over 30 pounds. If the rules say "no dog over 30 pounds but" and then list exceptions, it's different. That does not appear to be the case.

    It is not true that a working dog/volunteer dog is untouchable. Again - if the rules say "no dogs over 30 pounds," then that's the rule.

    You are responsible for knowing the rules before you buy - I know it may not sound fair but that is the law. Ignorance is not an excuse. Why are they going after just you? I have no idea. If that is the case, as I said, then you have grounds for a suit for discrimination. You would have to speak to the other owners of large dogs and find out if they are being likewise approached.

    It sounds like this complex is full of problems, this being only one of them.
  • May 22, 2009, 09:05 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ga_Dog_Lover View Post
    One more thing: the bylaws never state a fine.

    There is a clear fine for not cleaning up poop, but no large dog fine ...

    So will the board just convene and make up some crazy fine for me?

    how does thaty work?

    The fact that they arent even talking or emailing other large dog owners (who happen to be women) infuriates me...



    The bylaws don't have to state a fine but if no fine is stated, no fine can be enforced. If the rules say, "no dogs over 30 pounds," and your dog is over 30 pounds they CAN force you to remove the dog from the premises. They cannot fine you.

    So they CAN fine if you don't clean up after a dog because it is clearly stated; they CANNOT fine you for having a large dog because that's not covered in the bylaws. They CAN'T make a person remove the dog if the owner doesn't clean up; they CAN make the person remove the dog if it's over 30 pounds.

    I would be infuriated, too, if the rules were enforced only for me. Again - if that's the case, go to an Attorney and begin legal action, not on the 30 pound dog rule but on the harassment.

    At times like this I remember why my husband and I sold our condo.
  • May 22, 2009, 09:05 AM
    Ga_Dog_Lover

    I have talked to the other owners. They have not been contacted - not once

    My attorney and I briefly talked a while ago and he said if they come after me its unlawful... if they go after everyone breaking the rules, they are just
  • May 22, 2009, 09:15 AM
    ScottGem

    First of all, this is a 12 unit complex. I can understand a large complex being ruled by one or two people, but not a small one like this. Go to the other dog owners and tell them that, if they try to force you to get rid of your dog, you will go to court. This will give the complex two choices, either they will have to drop action against you or take action against all violators. So if they don't want to see their dogs targeted, they need to let the board know.

    HOA boards are elected, when is the next election or even meeting? Bring a majority of owners to this meeting and demand the discrimination cease or they will be subject to lawsuits that will bankrupt the HOA.

    And yes, every condo or co-op complex has such by-laws. You were responsible for getting a copy and familiarizing yourself with them.
  • May 22, 2009, 09:29 AM
    Ga_Dog_Lover
    If they do come after me with a suit to have the dog removed, will they have to use the treasury fund to do so?

    We have very little money in the reserve - I'm assuming that will fund the lawyer, court fees, etc...

    Can I not use that as leverage? I will assume that the other residents wouldno want their $ going towards an action that they feel is ridiculous, like eveicting a dog that no one cares about (minus a few ppl)
  • May 22, 2009, 09:37 AM
    ScottGem

    Yes that is what I meant by bankrupt the HOA. HOAs typically have attorneys on retainer for certain tasks, but if they start or have to defend a lawsuit, their attorney is going to bill them for it and it comes out the HOA treasury. If the treasury is depleted the HOA will need to up the maintenance or charge a special assessment to replenish it.
  • May 22, 2009, 10:12 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ga_Dog_Lover View Post
    if they do come after me with a suit to have the dog removed, will they have to use the treasury fund to do so?

    we have very little money in the reserve - im assuming that will fund the lawyer, court fees, etc ...

    can i not use that as leverage? i will assume that the other residents wouldno want their $ going towards an action that they feel is ridiculous, like eveicting a dog that no one cares about (minus a few ppl)


    Yes, and Scott has explained that.

    Of course, if you threaten a lawsuit the condo board may just decide not to selectively enforce the rules and to force ALL owners of dogs over 30 pounds to rehome their dogs - that will make you something less than popular.

    I don't see you winning by bankrupting the treasury or forcing all dogs to go. I agree with Scott - get signatures if you have to and replace the board with dog friendly people. Once you do/have, then rewrite the rules to allow whatever size dogs you want.

    Of the 12 units, how many have dogs over 30 pounds?
  • May 22, 2009, 10:40 AM
    Ga_Dog_Lover

    Currently 2 - mine and another unit

    The owner of that unit is female and the board members are all female...

    The other dog owner is in favor of keeping my puppy in the complex as is 5 of the 6 owners in my 'wing'

    The crazy thing is - that other large dog is very noisy, and there are other small dogs that are noisy too. My dog is very relaxed and doersnt bark

    Back to the 'working dog" argument: how can they (HOA) make the 'law' for the building... even if it was an assistance/blind assistance dog they can remove him?
  • May 22, 2009, 10:43 AM
    Ga_Dog_Lover
    For the record, I'm not saying yes or no to the size of the dog... to me its about noise nuisance... I could get a 5 lb toy poodle that barks at everything that moves and he would be hated in my building... my dog is larger than that, obviously, but he's quiet.

    If I were to rewrite the rules I would allow for Assistance and Working Dogs to have the right to live here, regardless of size

    The amount of work, training, and discipline that goes into these dogs is mind boggling
  • May 22, 2009, 10:56 AM
    ScottGem

    Generally, there are laws that exemption working dogs from pet restrictions. I would research the laws for GA.

    But the bottomline here is this. The rules say you can't have a dog over 30 pounds. If you are the only one with a dog that large, then you are in violation of the rules and can be forced to get rid of the dog. There are only two reasons they can't legally force you to get rid of it. Either because there are other owners with dogs that violate the rule who are not being targeted or because of the exemption of working dogs.

    With only 12 units it shouldn't be hard to get a majority to overrule the board.
  • May 22, 2009, 11:12 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ga_Dog_Lover View Post
    currently 2 - mine and another unit

    the owner of that unit is female and the board members are all female ...

    the other dog owner is in favor of keeping my puppy in the complex as is 5 of the 6 owners in my 'wing'

    the crazy thing is - that other large dog is very noisy, and there are other small dogs that are noisy too. my dog is very relaxed and doersnt bark

    Back to the 'working dog" argument: how can they (HOA) make the 'law' for the building ... even if it was an assistance/blind assistance dog they can remove him?



    In NY working dogs and assisting dogs are 2 different things. Of course, I cannot speak for your State.

    You could have a seeing eye dog that weighs 100 pounds. You could not be a Police Officer, keeping your canine partner in your condo unit UNLESS there are exceptions in the bylaws. There do not appear to be exceptions. Believe it or not, in my husband's complex they did have a Police Officer and his dog had to live with another Police Officer's family (against the PD rules) because the bylaws said "No dogs over 40 pounds."

    Why would you NOT want a trained Police dog in the complex? I have no idea - I felt safer with the dog and Officer around.

    If they so decide the HOA is going to enforce the bylaws as they are written. They are not going to debate the fairness of the rules.

    Again - consult with an Attorney but I don't think you have a defense.
  • May 22, 2009, 01:12 PM
    Ga_Dog_Lover
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ScottGem View Post
    Generally, there are laws that exemption working dogs from pet restrictions. I would research the laws for GA.

    But the bottomline here is this. The rules say you can't have a dog over 30 pounds. If you are the only one with a dog that large, then you are in violation of the rules and can be forced to get rid of the dog. There are only two reasons why they can't legally force you to get rid of it. Either because there are other owners with dogs that violate the rule who are not being targetted or because of the exemption of working dogs.

    With only 12 units it shouldn't be hard to get a majority to overrule the board.

    There are two of us in this development

    They other owner is not being contacted or prosecuted for her pet
  • May 23, 2009, 04:28 PM
    Ga_Dog_Lover

    I was just informed this morning that the president of the HOA has 4 cats and lets them roam free in the coutyard... does this help my case?
  • May 23, 2009, 04:45 PM
    ScottGem

    No. You have a very good case. Why do you need to try to find trivialities?
  • May 23, 2009, 07:16 PM
    Ga_Dog_Lover

    ?

    What do you mean?

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