Hi all,

I'll try to keep it as brief as possible!

I'm a male 31 years old, been together for 7 years, got engaged 2 years ago.. I love her, I'd die for her, and her feelings are mutual.. To keep it short, we had been having those silly arguments, have broken up too many times, but would always make up in less than 5-6 hours [lol :)].. However, this time was different, for the first time she was the one to suggest breaking up (asked for some space, "i don't have the same feelings", blah blah blah), I begged for 1-2 days, then went directly to no contact.

HOWEVER, thing is: we agreed I would send her stuff back, and she would the same as well.. A week passes, I didn't send her stuff, but neither had I received anything from her.. So, she sent SMS asking where's her stuff, I replied "sorry i was too busy, i will send your stuff shortly, do you have any idea where's my stuff 'cause i haven't received anything?", she answered "sorry, haven't either sent your stuff, i lost your mail address"..

Which of course is a lie, she knows my address by heart :-) Even if she had forgotten her address, she would have asked for it from the very first day we broke up.. Anyway, we exchanged 5-6 emails discussing just about our stuff, we were both very polite (I wanted to keep lines of communication open)..

I know that she has doubts, and she doesn't really want to break up.. But, she's too proud to make the first move.. I was wondering if I'd lose my dignity/self-respect if I would go for it first? Since I was the dumpee, she was the dumper, who has to make the first move?

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Originally Posted by tree56

I love her, I'd die for her, and her feelings are mutual..

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They must not be since she asked for a break.

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Originally Posted by tree56

However, this time was different, for the first time she was the one to suggest breaking up (asked for some space, "i don't have the same feelings", blah blah blah), I begged for 1-2 days,

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She dumped you, you begged her back. Keep this in mind in minute.

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Originally Posted by tree56

I know that she has doubts, and she doesn't really want to break up..

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You don't know that.

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Originally Posted by tree56

But, she's too proud to make the first move..

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I don't think it's pride. I think it's control. Remember, she dumped you, you begged her. She's in complete control, and by doing this she's got you waiting on her.

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Originally Posted by tree56

I was wondering if I'd lose my dignity/self-respect if I would go for it first? Since I was the dumpee, she was the dumper, who has to make the first move?

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I'm a little confused, is this a long distance relationship? If not, I'd recommend getting that stuff back in person so you can account for all of it. As hard as this might be to believe sometimes women lie and try to keep your stuff at the end of a break up.

Having said that, I think you would actually gain some self respect... or at least hers if you sent her stuff back. In that, I'd include a list of what is yours and what you expect back. She's holding all the cards right now. She dumped you. She refused your begging. She's in control. She thinks (and is correct but she doesn't have to know this) that you are desperate to get her back. She thinks that you are not going to return her stuff because you need her and are waiting on her. In fact, if you sent her back her stuff it will demonstrate to her that in fact you are not as bothered by her decision as she thinks you are, and are no longer waiting on her decisions to guide your life. In many ways this is the last way you have to demonstrate to her you are the one in control of your life and not her. Prove her wrong and take her up on her offer to send her stuff back.

It's a tricky situation, I really do not like chuff's advice, it seems like a lot of mind games and I hate mind games. If you truly want her back, you need to figure out what keeps causing these "little fights" and why this time the breakup has been longer then a few hours. Once you get down to what the cause is, figure out if you can change this. If you can call her up and tell her:
" I don't want to lose you, that is why I haven't sent your stuff back. I know we have been having a lot of fights lately and I think it's because of X. I think if we can work on this issue together, everything can be better"

If you will die for this girl, then let your pride die

My goodness 7 years is a long time to be dating and engaged for 2 years. You are both in your 30's what's the problem?
You two need to pee or get off the "dating/engagement" pot.

If you want her tell her so (you two are too old for mind games you're old enough and been together long enough to be able to communicate with each other) After all this time if you two still aren't ready for marriage you two need to just call it quits.
Maybe that is what her problem is.

Yes, I admit that she must got really surprised to see me begging. She could never imagine that I would ever do such a thing, so maybe she got advantage of it huh?

Nicolerock, you said "if you die for this girl, let your pride die as well".. Well, couldn't somebody just say the same thing for her? Remember, our break up was not a mutual decision.. She was the dumper, not me.. I already let my pride die over the first 1-2 days of our break up, I don't think I can do it again!

However, her emails are very polite & caring, she goes like "take care of yourself", etc.. Sometimes she gave the impression that she's waiting for me to make the first move..

Mind games, huh? I really hate those childish mind games, I can't follow her, I'm too old for this kind of crap..

What I'm trying to figure out is what's the meaning she hasn't sent my stuff back yet..!

YOU let your pride die, I don't care about her pride. I am not talking to her I am talking to YOU!

Do you really think that if I let my pride die, in the long run it will benefit me and/or my relationship? Do you really think that my relationship will ever be 100% the same?

I think that then she'll take advantage and start thinking "uh ok, if I dumped him once and came crawling back, I'll be able to dump him again whenever I want"..

Isn't this true? Will she consider my move as sweet, or will she consider me as pathetic loser with no self-respect? Does it depend on the personality of each woman?

Sound to me like you guys are playing games back and forth with each other.

First of all, you need to stop the mind games, give her stuff back and stay away from this situation. If you come back to her, she will look at you as a weak and pathetic man. Even if she takes you back, she took you back out of pity. This will not hold a healthy relationship, she will leave you again.

Give her stuff back and end it already. She dumped you and you need to accept that. The mind games are just going to hurt you and stall you on what you really need to worry about... yourself. Move on buddy, don't do this to yourself.

Give her her stuff back and be done with it!
I don't think she wants you, she just has not given you your stuff back. You've been together for so long it may be hard for her to let go completely, but I think she is tired of being in a relationship that is going no where. I don't think she is going to ask you to come back and she shouldn't. 7 years is a long time and she is not getting any younger.
She may have found another.

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Originally Posted by tree56

Do you really think that if I let my pride die, in the long run it will benefit me and/or my relationship? Do you really think that my relationship will ever be 100% the same?

I think that then she'll take advantage and start thinking "uh ok, if I dumped him once and came crawling back, I'll be able to dump him again whenever I want"..

Isn't this true? Will she consider my move as sweet, or will she consider me as pathetic loser with no self-respect? Does it depend on the personality of each woman?

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Maybe she'll think after all of this time you are ready to commit. I don't think it would last though, which is why she probably left. 7 years is a long time to invest in an adult. She is not getting any younger.

Still I can't figure out why she's keeping my stuff though... Any reasonable explanation?

What kind of stuff is it. Are they things you need? Let her have them and move on.

Then f-ing ask her! We don't know! We aren't mind readers! Maybe the reason she left is you can't communicate!

There is no way you are 31 years old. Because this is what people do in high school she has my stuff I want it back, she isn't getting her stuff until I get my stuff. WHAAA WHAAA WHAAA! Be a man send the lady her things back and be done with it. I am 31 years old also If I acted like this I would punch myself in the face. Grow up!

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Originally Posted by tree56

I was wondering if I'd lose my dignity/self-respect if I would go for it first? Since I was the dumpee, she was the dumper, who has to make the first move?

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Well, you say you aren't into mind games, but this is a power struggle. You are in the middle of a mind game and you are both playing chicken. Or not.

It might be done.

The real question you need to be asking is why get back together if you can so casually break up?

How do you fix whatever is broken in five hours... only to repeat it again somewhere down the line. Then again. Repeat.

Until it isn't the same.

You've been together a long time. You've been engaged a long time. You've been breaking up for a long time.

I really don't get your obsession with who sends what first. It sounds like high school noise. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it does.

So... you can live in reality or pretend reality. Reality probably means you both need to step back and decide if you've hit a wall. Just because you know each other, even love each other, doesn't mean you are right together.

Some loves aren't meant for all time. Some are meant for a time. Cannot tell you where yours is... but I can tell you that you aren't going to get any answers getting back together in sixth period after breaking up in homeroom.

And you said you'd send her the stuff that's hers. You can live by your word or you can play mind games. Right now you are playing mind games, whether you like them or not.

You said "x" and you are doing "y"... and I don't care what she is doing. Her actions don't define who you are.

So... stop trying to see three moves ahead. Either apologize, if you are sorry, and look for the real reasons behind all of this back and forth... or don't apologize, and accept the reality of where you are and do what you said you would.

I was in a seven year relationship that had a couple of breaks along the way. We were younger when we started dating, but still... it was long term and there were breakups. And the last breakup wasn't all that much different than a few of the others... I just was done with the noise. Finished. Time to stop wasting time.

She knew me better than anyone else, but she didn't expect id walk. And I did.

So don't assume you "know" where she is. You might be back together. You might not.

If you make "the first move" (which is really incorrect... this is the 2035th move in this relationship... lots o backstory) and she suddenly wants you back... uhm... why do it?

You guys have bigger issues to solve than who has whose crap. Give the crap back and move on to finding out whether you two are really going to address what is wrong in this relationship.

Sorry for the tough love. We talk to people like they are our friends, brothers, sisters here... so the soft gloves are left in the drawer.

I suspect she was looking for a reason to break up, and got one. Seems like the communications were weak anyway, considering the 7 years you both have invested. Guess she wasn't all that thrilled with the two years you lived together.

If its only been a week since the break up, send her stuff back, and disappear from her life. You can get more "stuff" without her.

That will stop the games, and drama, and wondering, as to her motives, feelings, or anything else.

It will also let the emotional dust settle, so you can make decisions based on facts, and not feelings.

Fact- she left, and wants her stuff.

Feelings- Shock over the break up, emotional abandonment, confusion. Loss of self respect because you begged, and she said no. (rejection).

The feelings will heal, if you deal with the fact.

Both of you are dragging out giving each other back their things because neither on of you want to let go instead you want to hold on to each other stuff. Why? Because nobody want to let go.

I don't understand how two adults can act like kids but I have heard worst.

Stop this yo-yo relationship once and for all. Move on! Things could be worst.

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Originally Posted by tree56

Do you really think that my relationship will ever be 100% the same?

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So... you really want more of the same?

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Originally Posted by tree56

I think that then she'll take advantage and start thinking "uh ok, if I dumped him once and came crawling back, I'll be able to dump him again whenever I want"..

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She has that option right now. At any moment. She can dump you whenever. The crawling back part is up to you...

But how the hell is giving back her stuff crawling back to her??

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Originally Posted by tree56

Will she consider my move as sweet, or will she consider me as pathetic loser with no self-respect? Does it depend on the personality of each woman?

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Hmmm... so you do the thing you said you would do, give her back her crap that she asked for... and you get to know the real "personality" of the woman? Sounds like fact finding to me.

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Originally Posted by tree56

Still I can't figure out why she's keeping my stuff though... Any reasonable explanation?

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You both are using stuff as a "hostage" for mental ransom, leverage.

She could write in here and say the same stuff about you. And we'd tell her to give you back your dumb stuff and move on, whatever moving on means.

You are holding onto this tiny little thread that says "maybe she still has my stuff because she doesnt want me to leave and so maybe if i dont send her her stuff, then she wont leave even tho' we arent talking or seeing each other"... or is it "maybe if i dont give in then im a real man and she will respect me for not communicating or doing as she asked because i saw through her charade and then shell be forced to make the first move which would show that shes weak... oh wait... IM weak if i make the first move, but shed be loving if she did... i think"...

Keep the crap. Ship the crap. This is not the issue.

I was in a 8 year relationship with a girl who also was into control. We did this kind of stuff so many times. Broke up so many times. She'd call me and say stuff like "I want the outdoor fireplace I just bought you back! you can't have it if your going to be using it to entertain other girls, blah blah" and vice versa, I'd ask for items or things back, etc.. Its all just a giant mind game mixed with you analyzing every flippin move you and her make.

The thing I never understood which 4 different people have pointed out to you is, this is a failed relationship that isn't going to work. Why do you want her to take you back if this is going to repeat over and over. Every time my GF and I broke up I would be unhappy for a month or two then after I've moved on or felt better she'd come back and we'd resolve some issues (or we would "think" we resolved) and then 1 month later, 1 week, 1 day, whatever, we were back to the same crap.

You need to come to reality with this thought.

STOP TRYING TO MAKE THE 7 YEARS WORTH SOMETHING. People think that the 7 years is wasted if you don't end up with that person you spent the 7 years with. Man, all these years are GONE unless we get married. Then they are a investment...

Stop thinking like that. The 7 years are 7 years. That's it. It just took you 7 years to figure out that you aren't the right match. Next relationship you are in, hopefully it will take LESS time to figure out.. maybe you will meet the right girl and within 2 years you will say, THIS IS THE ONE, and marry her... but once you wait 7 years and you date from 23 to 31 you were already married at that point. But without the legal paperwork, and obviously without the commitment and vows between you for better or for worse.

Ok, I should give some update info, 'cause this is driving me crazy.

10 days ago I sent her an email where I apologized for every mistake I did in a very mature way, I admitted that we both made mistakes, and took responsibility for my mistakes. I just asked her if she could also understand the mistakes she did, so that we could make a new start, and think things through again. I also mentioned that if she wouldn't want to, I wouldn't force her, wouldn't violate her space.

Guess what she replied... I'll briefly describe her response: "You know what? When I read your email, I could have given our relationship a second chance, but you said 1-2 things that really irritated me & you ruined your chances..."

Immature, or what? Anyway, I got really angry with her response, and then replied politely "Please, lets stop any communication between us, anytime soon you'll receive your stuff, please send my stuff as soon as possible", and she promised she would.. Actually, she seemed very angry that I asked her to stop any communication between us, seemed like she was hoping I would continue begging..

Anyway, thing is that she did receive her stuff (checked online DHL tracking), but for some reason she hasn't sent my stuff up till now.. I should have received them, by mail it would take 1-2 days, 10 days have passed, nothing received.. I'm really angry, I don't want to send her another email asking for my stuff back,?

What can I do? I WANT MY STUFF BACK!! I'm too tired to play her stupid ming/power games.

(extra info: from the day we broke up, she acts in a very immature way: the day we broke up, she opened a Facebook account -which I know she always hated this Facebook crap-, which she intentionally left unlocked, so I would be able to visit her profile and check her NEW pictures from the night she went out to the club with some NEW friends.. Obviously she didn't really want to go to the club, she always hated nightlife. She just did to make me jealous. How immature is she?)