Hello:

From an obituary today in the NY Slimes:

"Col. Harold E. Fischer Jr., an American fighter pilot who was routinely tortured in a Chinese prison during and after the Korean War, becoming — along with three other American airmen held at the same prison — a symbol and victim of cold war tension, died in Las Vegas on April 30. He was 83 and lived in Las Vegas. The cause was complications of back surgery, his son Kurt said.

From April 1953 through May 1955, Colonel Fischer — then an Air Force captain — was held at a prison outside Mukden, Manchuria. For most of that time, he was kept in a dark, damp cell with no bed and no opening except a slot in the door through which a bowl of food could be pushed. Much of the time he was handcuffed. Hour after hour, a high-frequency whistle pierced the air...."

Like my righty friends would say, "That's TORTURE??"

You will notice how the Slimes defines torture when it comes to what foreign governments did - isolation, sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation - but not what WE did. What THEY did is much milder, of course, than anything WE did to one of our own citizens, Jose Padilla, or what we routinely did at Gitmo. Yet, the Slimes doesn't call what WE did torture.

Embodied in this column is the notion that predominates among our political and media elites: everything is different, and better, when WE do it.

In fact, it is that exact mentality that was and continues to be the primary justification for our torture regime. It needs to change. We are NOT exceptional. We might even be less than average.

excon

I guess I'm missing the point of Andrew Sullivan's rant since a quick NYT search revealed over 10,000 hits on the word "torture" including this May 5th editorial by the very editors Sullivan excoriates. I guess that just shows how far off the deep end Sullivan has gone.

Hello Steve:

So, you're fine with calling what happened to Fischer torture, but not what we do. I figured as much.

excon

Just pointing out that your previously unnamed source is either losing his mind, hasn't paid that much attention to what the NY Times has said or he just doesn't care what the facts are - maybe all three.

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kept in a dark, damp cell with no bed and no opening except a slot in the door through which a bowl of food could be pushed.

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Well no ; our prisoners are kept in comfortable cells that have been inspected by numerous international agencies including the Red Cross. I bet they compare favorably or superior to how the domestic prisoner is housed.

They are fed so well that there is a new medical concern at GITMO... weight gain. .

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Much of the time he was handcuffed. Hour after hour, a high-frequency whistle pierced the air... "

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Well no ;if you have evidence that our prisoners were subject to constant high-frequency whistle lets hear the evidence. Ours were subject occasionally to loud music .

Further ;the worse of the interrogation were used to obtain actionable intel from someone we know was planning attacks on us. The Chinese were doing this to elicit what they knew would be a false confession.

Sorry .not the same.