Ask Me Help Desk - Promiscious Past and Conflict of Values

Greetings all: I believe I have a rather complicated issue that has been a terrible daily burden for me. To understand you must know a little about me. Survivor of 20-year loveless passionless marriage, quintessential romantic and rather strict values regarding sex. When married I dreamed a fairy tale and when divorced I spent 6 years finding my true love. Never in my adult life did I have cheap meaningless sex but only within context of a romantic relationship. Frankly, and I know I am not mainstream, I find meaningless sex rather empty and in fact repugnant. Sex to me is a very spiritual thing. Don't get me wrong - I'm as much if not more the horn-dog today than at 18 with very high drive that was difficult to keep in check. Finally a found the other half of my broken heart in Europe and married after a 1 year incredible international romance. My idea of love and what I wanted was a very deep intimate unselfish love. Almost a submission of each to the other. I made it clear to my wife from early on exactly what I wanted as I did all others. My wife was previously married and has a daughter. My expectation was only that she valued sex as I did and was within the context of a romantic relationship. I was aware and freely accepted that she had other boyfriends after marriage and before me and that was fine. However, I don't think she ever really appreciated the depth of my convictions. Prior to marrying, I decided to try business in Europe and so I moved in and three months later we were married. My wife and I both are very social and like to party and dance and get crazy (those values are OK :)). I can say our year together was incredible without a single real argument. We loved being with each other all the time. I was and remain madly in love.

But as time went on and after a few drinks she started to say things that contradicted what she said earlier. She started saying things like, "there was MANY men" and when talking about sexual values she said that sometimes a woman needs sex for health and simply sometimes she wanted a man. This offended me and over time I became somewhat offended. Then I learned that she had an affair and that was the end of her marriage. Her husband was a merchant marine and gone for very long periods. She was a very good girl but after 12 years of being a single parent to her daughter and sex only a couple times a year, she had an affair. This blew me away but I then thought, OK, I understand, so she longed for romance and love like I did. But then when talking about it which is rarely if ever is willing to do, I said I understood she wanted romance... etc... and she interrupts... "Sorry, it was sex, I left my husband and for 4 months lived with the crazy guy and the relationship was one thing - SEX!

Now I felt like she totally misrepresented herself to me and I felt damned resentful but she would not tell me anything else. Past is the past. No respect for my feelings. No understand of my resentment. And no willingness to help me understand. Now I wanted full disclosure. Then she changed her story and demanded I believe it. She said yes she had affair but then was a good girl and didn't know why she said that sex for health was good...etc. I found it very difficult to believe but I did. I had to return for 6 months to the States but when I returned with plans for an incredibly romantic reunion, I had fully convinced myself of her new story and all would be ok.

Then while drinking wine in the hot-tub and talking about her girlfriend who said bad things about her like she was promiscious, she said, "I do not understand why she said this but maybe it was because I had a 24-year old boyfriend (she was 34 at the time), but this boyfriend didn't last, sure it was good sex but I wanted more than sex." Good Lord! Could she have said anything to shock me more! After realizing her blunder she tried to convince me that she was looking for love... yea... right... 24 year old man offers NOTHING to a 34 year old woman other than a beautiful body and great sex. It shattered my entire image.

She absolutely will not openly discuss her past, demands that I believe the latest version of the truth but damnit! This isn't about insecurity, it's about selling me an image then tormenting me with a slow destruction while never caring about how all this effects me. I made an ultimatum. I said I want and deserve to know the truth and I deserve to have my feelings and values respected as I have always done for her. But she absolutely will not confide in me the truth and allow me to accept it.

Do not get me wrong... we are PERFECT TOGETHER AND MADLY IN LOVE!! This is the ONE albeit big ONE issue in our relationship. I mean we NEVER fight or disagree about anything. EXCEPT THIS AND IT IS MAKING ME CRAZY!

And I also realize that had she TOLD ME TRUTH in beginning then we wouldn't be together and ALL I WANT IS TO BE WITH HER!

Am I wrong to feel resentment and am I wrong to demand that I know which version of this history is accurate and am I wrong for wanting her to value my feelings and respect my values? All I want is closure and maybe some contrition.

Sorry for the diatribe. PLEASE HELP! I AM GOING CRAZY!

Quote:

Do not get me wrong... we are PERFECT TOGETHER AND MADLY IN LOVE!! This is the ONE albeit big ONE issue in our relationship. I mean we NEVER fight or disagree about anything. EXCEPT THIS AND IT IS MAKING ME CRAZY!

And I also realize that had she TOLD ME TRUTH in beginning then we wouldn't be together and ALL I WANT IS TO BE WITH HER!

You are madly in love and you are happy and you are perfect together,do you know how many people want that in a relationship?

You think she misrepresented herself to you?

Did you ask for a full disclosure before marriage?

Bottom line is ,you can't change the past and if you are not willing to accept what is than it sounds as if you will be sacrificing an otherwise great relationship.

She had purely sexual relationships,she did not want any other complications,that does not make her a bad person.That makes her a woman who knows what she does and does not want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by artlady

You are madly in love and you are happy and you are perfect together,do you know how many people want that in a relationship?

You think she misrepresented herself to you?

Did you ask for a full disclosure before marriage?

Bottom line is ,you can't change the past and if you are not willing to accept what is than it sounds as if you will be sacrificing an otherwise great relationship.

She had purely sexual relationships,she did not want any other complications,that does not make her a bad person.That makes her a woman who knows what she does and does not want.

Thanks ArtLady but yea... I did ask for disclosure and early on refused to discuss it. She further went on to convince me her value were in line with mine. Look, this is not so much to do with acceptance albeit it is difficult, it is about conflicted values and her refusal to simply give me some closure. Had she simply kept the tack of not talking about it then no bad feelings would exist. The problem is she frequently makes reference to her past then refuses to talk truthfully and freely when it strikes a nerve. She also will not or should I say at this point, can not see how she sort of did the bait and switch. It is one thing to be the jealous insecure guy tormenting his love because of her past relationships but I yea, I feel a lot of resentment that would resolved simply by her valuing/respecting my feelings and clarifying which version of the truth is reality. At this point I think I could accept and forget if she said she slept with every guy in town for simple cheap sex and regrets misrepresenting and tormenting me with it. She simply will not allow me inside this part of her life expect for when something blurts out.

I understand her differences albeit they are differences. I believe my values are no more right or wrong than hers, yours or anyone. SHe is not 'bad' but I wanted my love to have the same values as I. I'm just looking for something to make this go away without having to get anything from her. Invalidating my values is not an answer.

Maybe I just got to get some thick skin. But you're right - WE ARE PERFECT TOGETHER AND THAT'S MORE THAN ANYTHING! Maybe that's it... THANKS!

In order for a healthy relationship to work, you guys need to talk to each other. Sounds to me like she has some skeletons in her closet that she doesn't want you to find out about (covering up her true nature) but then again, she probably just doesn't want you to think less of her. I'd sit down and talk with her as carefully and patiently as possible. Good luck.

Obviously after a few drinks she gets real talky.

Having said that, I find it interesting that sex is the only thing your worried about, and have never bothered to find out the why of it, or what was going on in her life.

Actually her past is what has made her values more compatible with yours, and that's a fact you are failing to appreciate. Another point to consider is, don't you think its telling that your tripping on her sexual past, but she isn't asking about yours, or if you measure up to her idea of what's correct?

The point being woman handle this issue much better than men, as they realize how immature it is to look back and not forward, and dealing with what they have.

Guys are always insecure about the sex life of the females we want, but trip when the truth hits the fan. If you love her as you say, don't make this a bigger deal than what it is, as its really not your business what she did before you. Why ruin what you say is so good now?

One of the reasons females are not as forthcoming about their past, is because us men, handle the truth badly.

Ain't that the truth Tal, there was a song, can't remember by who but it said "A guy wants to be a girls first, and a girl would settle to be his last"

We take the truth really bad, most guys always think about their partners past sex life. I read it in a book, that because guys are visual, we think about it more. You're girlfriend, fiancé, or wife shows you some positions, you wonder where she learned them from. I've known people who have went as far as thinking about if they moaned as much as they do while they are with them, did they use the same dirty talk, everything.

You can't change the past, so either accept it or move on.

I think she left out and/or lied about her past because she didn't want to be judged by you. So she sugarcoated a lot of things but her stories are unfolding due to her drinking.

One concern I have is why is her friend telling you about her past and her promiscious ways? It sounds like she has a hidden agenda and might not really be a friend.

So right now the past is the past and it can't be undid. She has a past, you have a past, I have a past, etc. You can't dwell on. You let it go and move forward.

There are usually reasons for behavior. It can go back to how she feels about herself, if she was ever hurt, childhood, or mistrust, or simply bad judgement. THese are the things that create values. Not acts themselves. LEARN MORE ABOUT HER, not her behaviors. Learn what makes to tick! Learn how she feels and what her behaviors look like when she feels a certain way.
Also, I do understand truly understand how YOU feel? Duped? Lied to? Sad? Hurt? Angry? That is what you can share with her. You do have the right to feel something... but what you sound like is judegmental. I don't think you are a judgemental person, but you are coming across like that... not as much concerned for her and getting to know her. SO you need to find a way to talk to her so she feels loved and accepted, rather than judged and misunderstood. That is really important to a woman.
My ultimate suggestion, marriage counseling will help with these conversations and get you started communicating so it works for BOTH of you...
You do seem like someone much in love, and that is why this is getting to you so much. So see what you can do to help, rather than hinder. Good luck!@

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Obviously after a few drinks she gets real talky.

Having said that, I find it interesting that sex is the only thing your worried about, and have never bothered to find out the why of it, or what was going on in her life.
.

Thanks! And by the way, I really have made every attempt to understand her, her pain and so forth. I guess it comes across that I only care about the sex revelations because it shattered an image important to me. It took me much time to understand her affair that ended her relationship because of course I would worry if the same could happen again. I know for a fact now how she blames herself for ruining a family principally because of her daughter. I do not think she fully forgives herself for it.

After her 4 months of sowing her oats she begged forgiveness from her ex-husband and wanted to rebuild the marriage. He refused. She then fell in love with another man and had a relationship for a little less than a year. During this relationship her ex-husband came now to her and wanted to remarry. She now refused citing her new love. This relationship is a real enigma and she will not ever speak much of it except that it came to an end when her boyfriend wanted her to have a baby but she wouldn't unless he married her. She believes he then started seeing other women. I know she was very in love with this guy and I speculate she held onto this relationship because it was to vindicate her for her betrayal of her husband as well as refusing his wanting to remarry. After this breakup is when she had the 24 year old boyfriend as well as I would expect much more.

She only talks of this period as crying a lot and focusing on her daughter and work. I think in fact she did the opposite and simply indulged herself and forgot her daughter due to the pain and guilt of all.

I want to talk to her about all this and someone else wrote something that I think is very right - I think I have been judgmental and the last thing she wants is to be sorry to another guy about all that has happened.

Talking would make me feel very good and I think she would find me to be caring and understanding. The problem is that she keeps wanting to attack my values as ridiculous and have me think different about the promiscuity instead of admitting to me any regrets. She had very high standards prior to divorce.

I wish we could talk about all this. Any advice on how to approach her such that she will talk openly and honestly? We can talk about all else - no problem - but not this.

It wouldn't be bad if she would never make any further mention and I would do the same. Past is past and forget but frequently she makes reference to all this and if I even softly approach it and say something, she shut it down. She wants to comment. She wants to talk about how ridiculous my values are but I must simply agree and/or keep my mouth shut and with a smile.

How can I get her to open up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by liz28

I think she left out and/or lied about her past because she didn't want to be judged by you. So she sugarcoated a lot of things but her stories are unfolding due to her drinking.

One concern I have is why is her friend telling you about her past and her promiscious ways? It sounds like she has a hidden agenda and might not really be a friend.

So right now the past is the past and it can't be undid. She has a past, you have a past, I have a past, etc. You can't dwell on. You let it go and move forward.

Thanks! Her friend did not tell me. Her friend made a comment to another friend and she found out and has since ended the friendship. She told me. She speaks another language and the word used by the friend meant a person who goes out frequently to find someone for sex. However the word she keeps using is equivalent to "slut". She kept saying, "I was not a slut" and then as proof told me that if she was a slut she would have sex with anyone willing and she cites a story when she when on a date and the guy came on to her and she refused and in essence she got beat up. She is very defensive when anyone infers she was a "slut". I think what is telling is that she never defends the other word - meaning go out, party, hook-up, crazy sex, move on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romefalls19

Ain't that the truth Tal, there was a song, can't remember by who but it said "A guy wants to be a girls first, and a girl would settle to be his last"

We take the truth really bad, most guys always think about their partners past sex life. I read it in a book, that because guys are visual, we think about it more. You're girlfriend, fiance, or wife shows you some positions, you wonder where she learned them from. I've known people who have went as far as thinking about if they moaned as much as they do while they are with them, did they use the same dirty talk, everything.

You can't change the past, so either accept it or move on.

Again, this isn't about my insecurities about the past. It is the fact that I have strong values regarding sex... and they are no more right or wrong then yours... they are mine... I was clear and my wife developed an image that did not represent the truth. Now that I have a little resentment, instead of recognizing the issue and talking, she keeps making references that offend. That is the issue. But thanks anyway.

And I don't know if this matters but she is 12 years my junior and if I do say so albeit I am unquestionably biased - extremely attractive and wildly sexy :)

Please help me figure a strategy to get her talking.

Which proves my last statement, you guys don't seem to have a good wave of communication which is only going to lead to worse arguments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snozzlewad

And I don't know if this matters but she is 12 years my junior and if I do say so albeit I am unquestionably biased - extremely attractive and wildly sexy :)

Please help me figure a strategy to get her talking.

You got a girl 12 years younger, sexy, attractive, honest and not a virgin. 4 out 5 ain't bad.

I strongly advise you back off, the past, and work on other areas of this relationship, and tell her to do the same.

The one area that needs the work, is LEARNING how to talk, and listen, to each other. Then the rest can be worked on. Start setting rules, and guide lines that can work for you both, then you can work together, to solve your issues, IF your both willing.

This is a process that takes time, and patience, and one of you has to shut up, and listen.

I suspect if you didn't make so much of your high falutting sex values, (which is ridiculous to me, and of importance only to you! ) This would be a non-subject, instead of a point of contention.

Take your time, and love your female, and it will open her up slowly, and you'll learn, and have a WILLING partner.