Ask Me Help Desk - Poker Game in KY

I currently run a private social poker league which, in my interpretation of KY law is legal as I do not profit or advance other than in the capacity of a player. (see .010: http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/528-00/CHAPTER.HTM) However, I do have cost for supplies and the such to run my games, in which I personally pay.

My plan is to draft an article of association and apply to become a 501(c)(7) non-profit private club. Then, with membership fees, running cost would be covered. The games would be for members and/or their bone fide guests, and members would still buy-in to the individual games as they do now.

I would still not profit or advance, except for indirectly by not having to pay these cost out of my own pocket. I would pay a membership fee, just like everyone else.

Is this legal under KY law? If not, is there a better alternative?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hello Northwind:

Ok, I'll give it a shot.

Couple things. If gambling is illegal under KY law, then the game, its participants and the house are going to be subject to arrest, no matter what structure you put in place.

My guess is that what you refer to as a "private social poker league", is an entity that you did NOT seek government permission to form. So, no matter how it's formed or what you call it, it's an illegal poker game. Your proposed not for profit club, on the other hand, IS a creation of government, and DOES require their permission.

What you want to do, is to cover your expenses. I suppose you think that if you don't profit, then it's not illegal (I wouldn't hold that same thought). Right now, the government doesn't know anything about your operation. You want to come out of the closet, at least break even, and stay out of jail.

I would say, that not only will the state of KY NOT grant you permission to form your not for profit club, but they'll stop the one you've got, and maybe try to make an example out of you. Cops have been known to do that.

My advice: Keep it private (illegal). Don't tug on superman's cape? Take a tiny piece of each pot to pay expenses. Don't snitch on yourself.

excon

I appreciate the response, but you are not correct regarding the current legal status of my game. General gambling is illegal in KY. However, there is an exception carved in the law for private social games where nobody profits or advances by any means other than in the capacity of a regular player.

"A person who gambles at a social game of chance on equal terms with other participants does not otherwise advance gambling activity by performing acts, without remuneration or fee, directed toward the arrangement or facilitation of the game as inviting persons to play, permitting the use of premises therefor and supplying equipment used therein."

In such by providing equipment, facility, and inviting players, I am not advancing gambling activity because it is a social game and I perform these acts without fee.

"A person is guilty of promoting gambling in the second degree when he knowingly advances or profits from unlawful gambling activity."

"A person is guilty of promoting gambling in the first degree when he knowingly advances or profits from unlawful gambling activity...(excessive amounts)"

If I were to follow your advice and take a rake for expenses, I could be in violation of the law.

My game is legal, I want to keep it that way. I even have a police officer in the league!

The idea of a social club would serve two purposes. Not only would it allow for membership fees that would cover cost, it would further solidify the 'private social' nature of our games.

I will go along with this, have several thousand dollars put back for the attorney to prove you are right in court.

Remember your idea of what the law says, and even what the law says is one thing, what the DA and the police believe it says is another.

So after they arrest everyone, and you all make bail and everyone has to hire an attorney at about 5000 a pop to find out who is right,

And perhaps if you loose at the first court, then it will be an appeal cost after that.

But of course that may not happen, but I would be ready for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northwind_Dagas

I appreciate the response, but you are not correct regarding the current legal status of my game. General gambling is illegal in KY. However, there is an exception carved in the law for private social games where nobody profits or advances by any means other than in the capacity of a regular player.

Hello again:

You might be right. I don't think so. It depends on one's reading and interpretation of the law. You think a “private social game where nobody profits” means one thing. I think (and I believe the state agrees with me) that a “private social game where nobody profits”, is a game of chance played for fun. And, I'll bet what you call winnings, a prosecutor will call profits.

Indeed, prosecutors have one way they read the law, while you and I read it another. And, you don't have to convince me either. I'm on your side. It's the prosecutors who you have persuade

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northwind_Dagas

"A person who gambles at a social game of chance on equal terms with other participants does not otherwise advance gambling activity by performing acts, without remuneration or fee, directed toward the arrangement or facilitation of the game as inviting persons to play, permitting the use of premises therefore and supplying equipment used therein."

In such by providing equipment, facility, and inviting players, I am not advancing gambling activity because it is a social game and I perform these acts without fee.

I understand that you see yourself as following the above role. I don't. In fact, I suggest that a prosecutor might believe your role is closer to that just below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northwind_Dagas

[I]"A person is guilty of promoting gambling in the second degree when he knowingly advances or profits from unlawful gambling activity."

If I were to follow your advice and take a rake for expenses, I could be in violation of the law.

My game is legal, I want to keep it that way. I even have a police officer in the league!

I don't believe your game is legal, and the fact that you have a cop that gambles doesn't support your contention that it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northwind_Dagas

The idea of a social club would serve two purposes. Not only would it allow for membership fees that would cover cost, it would further solidify the 'private social' nature of our games.

Oh, I understand what a great idea the club is for YOU. I just don't see the state going along.

excon

I agree with the other posters. Keep it hush-hush. Either asess a fee on your own to cover the cost of supples or require the members of your league to supply their own.