Hello:

Didja read about what your government did to people in YOUR name?? It's OK if you're not embarrassed by your government. I'm embarrassed enough for all of us.

These ten tortures are: (l) attention grasp, (2) walling, (3) facial hold, (4) facial slap (insult slap), (5) cramped confinement, (6) wall standing, (7) stress positions, (8) sleep deprivation, (9) insects placed in a confinement box, and (10) the waterboard.

I suppose you're going to tell me that I forget WHO they are. My answer is PRECISELY THAT!!

Blind justice is a concept LOST on the right wing!!!

Ok, I'll indulge you for a minute... Let's look at WHO they are. When there were 600 at Gitmo, Cheney told us that they were the "worst of the worst". Since then they let 400 of 'em go with NO charges... So, I guess 400 of the 600 WEREN'T the worst of the worst...

But, if Vice was WRONG about 2/3 of them, what gives you confidence that he's right about the remailing 1/3?? Well, I for one, have NO confidence in it, however I'm sure you righty's believe every word Vice utters.

Who else are these people?? Well, they've never been charged with anything. Even without rights, they've not been convicted of anything. We didn't even arrest all of them. Some were handed over because they couldn't pay a bribe. In truth, we have NO idea whether they're bad guys or not.

The torture memo details the interrogation techniques that were used on Abu Zubaydah. The Palestinian-born man was captured in Pakistan, in March 2002, and then interrogated in Afghanistan and Guantánamo Bay. According to US officials he has given information that foiled major terror attacks, however he has never been charged with any crime and remains in custody.

In a Red Cross report on Guantánamo Bay this year he was quoted saying of his waterboarding: "I thought I was going to die. I lost control of my urine. Since then, I still lose control of my urine when under stress".

"I gave a lot of false information in order to satisfy what I believed the interrogators wished to hear in order to make the ill-treatment stop,” he said.

excon

My answer is that the Obama adm will not prosecute because all the Justice Dept opinions that were released were determined by sound legal standing .


Here is my definition of torture
http://patdollard.com/wp-content/upl...er11zg3yf1.jpg

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Originally Posted by tomder55

My answer is that the Obama adm will not prosecute because all the Justice Dept opinions that were released were determined by sound legal standing .

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Hello again, tom:

Couple things.

It WAS legal. But, it was anything but sound. Plus, I know you believe torture is cool, because it's revenge. Justice ain't part of your equation.

But, for the moment, let's forget about whether torture is good or not. Let's talk about whether we're ever going to do it again. Mr. Constitutional lawyer Obama says no. "We have taken steps to ensure that the actions described within them (the memos) never take place again," Obama said. He's dreaming!!

While Obama has turned the page, many others haven't, including people such as yourself, who think waterboarding was a good idea. Without a commission or a trial, if Mitt Romney, (the man who pledged to double the size of Gitmo) is ever president, we're going to start torturing all over again.

excon

I have actually read some of the memos (published in the Slimes )
Justice Department Memos on Interrogation Techniques - The New York Times

So far they appear to me that :
They show great concern for the health and well-being of the detainees.

They were only authorized in very limited circumstances (only when the CIA had reason to believe that the detainee had knowledge about pending terrorist attacks etc)

That thousands of American servicemen have been waterboarded and subjected to the other techniques in question, as part of their training.

The fact that the CIA extracted valuable INTELLIGENCE (it matters little if some of the "confessions "were lies) proves their effectiveness.The total information received allowed them to swiftly bring down the KSM group and by all evidence prevented other attacks on the country .

I will not lose any sleep that one of terrorists feared bugs ,and we used a caterpillar against him, and now he permanently needs Depends.

What bothers me more is again the left has defined the limits of what will happen to captured detainees. We know already that AQ trains with the Army Manual (which is available on-line) in mind. Now they know they will no longer have to train against getting slapped or being put into a confinement box.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Now they know they will no longer have to train against getting slapped or being put into a confinement box.

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Hello again, tom:

I'm sure the jihadists are relieved to find out, that if the bomb they've strapped to their body fails to go off, they're not going to get slapped.

You righty's are silly.

excon

The concern here is not the schmuck with the vest. It's the a$$hole who sent him I want stopped.

Abu Zubaydah (a so called low-level operative ) disclosed some information voluntarily. But he was coerced into disclosing information that led to the capture of Ramzi bin al Shibh ;a planners of 9-11. who gave info.that helped lead to the capture of KSM and other senior AQ thugs.

The info from these captured jihadists helped break up plots aimed at both Europe and the U.S.

Briefings and hearings open to all members of the Intelligence Committees of Congress ;both parties , detailed this information and how the information was obtained . Not a peep of protest was made at the time . Now there is faux outrage and a "promise" made to terrorist that we will be good.
That is what's silly .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

It's the a$$hole who sent him I want stopped.

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Hello again, tom:

Changes NOTHING. You think the leaders will stop waging jihad because they know they'll be waterboarded if they're caught??

It's silly.

Plus, there's equally compelling information that Zubaydah's value to the American public was greatly oversold. What folks inside the CIA and FBI were realizing, even as the dufus was emphasizing the strategic value of Zubaydah, is that Zubaydah is psychologically imbalanced with multiple personalities. He was not involved in various events that the CIA thought he was involved in. During various bombings in the late '90s, he was not where the CIA thought he would be. Zubaydah, in his diary's, goes through long lists quoting nonsensical details about various people and what they're doing, folks that he's moving around, getting plane tickets for and serving tea to, all in the hand of three different characters. The CIA thought he was involved in both the Khobar Towers bombing and the attack on the USS Cole, and he clearly wasn't.

That's the real story of Zubaydah.

excon

Mentally ill ? I wonder what that means .Because he was afraid of bugs ? I thought Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was also mentally ill.

Let's see what information the unstable and multiple personalitied Zubaydah disclosed.

He revealed to the CIA that KSM was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks and that his code name was “Muktar”(something Zubaydah thought we already knew).
He also gave us information that led to the capture of Jose Padilla. Yeah I know.. the dirty bomb plot was not real either but KSM did send him on a mission to blow up American buildings using natural gas. Lucky for us we knew of that plot before Padilla arrived in O'Hare Chicago. We knew about it because Zubaydah gave the CIA that info also.

He also gave us the key info. On Ramzi bin al Shibh ,who not only helped plan 9-11 , but also was working on a plot to hijack planes in Europe to attack England.

The wild and crazy Zubaydah and bin al Shibh then provided information that led to the capture of KSM .

KSM's swim led to the capture of Zubair ,an operative with the terrorist network Jemmah Islamiyah,who then indentified a Jemmah Islamiyah leader named Hambali who was also KSM's partner in developing a plot to hijack passenger planes and fly them into West Coast skyscrapers.

I could go on and on... a plot to use anthrax by an AQ cell was disrupted with info from KSM... he gave info that led to the capture of Ammar al Baluchi who was plotting an attack against our embassy in Karachi. etc. etc.
These are what is already known by open source information. I can just imagine what has not been revealed . This month the Brits did a quick round up of plotters when their intel chief got sloppy with some paperwork and the Brit press revealed the plot.

Anyway . All the nonsense by the Compost that Zubaydah was a minor player has been discredited .

After reading the memos I'm just not that disturbed. They sure don't sound the way they've been described by the great unhinged among us, and Obama has both promised not to prosecute anyone and tied his own hands in the process by suspending "enhanced" techniques and releasing the memos. I'm sure he released them to give the nutroots something to ease their pain after their 24 hr mourning period from discovering he wouldn't prosecute.

What does Panetta do now since he said the techniques in the Army Field Manual which the Jihadists have a copy of might not be enough, and swore in his confirmation hearing "he would not hesitate to go to the president and ask for additional authority if there was "a ticking-bomb situation?"

A good, less controversial way to torture terrorists would be to put them in a small room with large speakers and force them to listen to Kenny G, Britney Spears, Eminem, any rap music, any boy band, Yoko Ono, pretty much any music made later than the 1980s. But seriously folks, I think that there are situations where "enhanced" interrogation techniques are justified. Islamic extremists exploit the U.S. constitutional rights when it suits them, and we have to do what it takes to prevent another 9/11.

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Originally Posted by earl237

A good, less controversial way to torture terrorists would be to put them in a small room with large speakers and force them to listen to Kenny G, Britney Spears, Eminem, any rap music, any boy band, Yoko Ono, pretty much any music made later than the 1980s. But seriously folks, I think that there are situations where "enhanced" interrogation techniques are justified. Islamic extremists exploit the U.S. constitutional rights when it suits them, and we have to do what it takes to prevent another 9/11.

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Non-stop William Hung. 72 hours of "I love the Rainy Nights" or "Turn Me Loose." Perhaps a Japanese game show marathon or Nancy Pelosi wallpaper?

Certainly getting assaulted by a caterpillar is torture.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

certainly getting assaulted by a caterpillar is torture.

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Horrible!
http://images.inmagine.com/img/weste...wses023242.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by earl237

A good, less controversial way to torture terrorists would be to put them in a small room with large speakers and force them to listen to Kenny G, Britney Spears, Eminem, any rap music, any boy band, Yoko Ono, pretty much any music made later than the 1980s. But seriously folks, I think that there are situations where "enhanced" interrogation techniques are justified. Islamic extremists exploit the U.S. constitutional rights when it suits them, and we have to do what it takes to prevent another 9/11.

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I'm with you on thisversion of "enhanced interrogation" ;) I would also include anything by Miley Cyrus.

But rather than "torture" I would take these jihadists to a strip club, buy them lap dances maybe give them a joint or two and then take pictures of them in these compromising positions and threaten to post them on the internet where their fellow jihadists can see what infidels they have become. :eek:

What do you think EX :)





G&P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by inthebox

What do you think EX

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Hello Righty's:

I think you should be ashamed. That's OK. I'm shamed enough for you.

excon

I don't know Ex,

In a box with a caterpillar or waterboardng vs a joint and strippers. Which one is more humane?:) You tell us. Tell us what interrogation techniques are alllowable in order to get useful information from suspected terrorists?



G&P

Hello again:

I guess it assuages your conscience to pretend that we didn't brutalize people. You even make fun of it.. I'll bet the Nazi's posted pictures of Jews having the time of their life too...

Then you say, well if we did brutalize them, they deserved it...

All this, from people who claim to be staunch Christians, like Hannity.

I understand why you don't want to discuss it seriously, or you pretend it didn't happen. I don't blame you at all. It turns my stomach too to know what was done in my name. I want to forget about as quickly as possible too..

But, I can't, and I'm not going to let you!

From the NY Times, today: Abu Zubaydah had provided much valuable information under less severe treatment, and the harsher handling produced no breakthroughs, according to one former intelligence official with direct knowledge of the case. Instead, watching his torment caused great distress to his captors, the official said.

Even for those who believed that brutal treatment could produce results, the official said, “seeing these depths of human misery and degradation has a traumatic effect on me... ”

But, I guess if you're on a website that shows nice pictures of fuzzy caterpillars, you won't be traumatized, because you're lying to yourselves.

I'm not a Christian. If this is what you guys do, I'm really glad I'm not.

excon

Ah, the Christian straw man.

I never said I was for torture, certainly the whole insect thing is ripe for jest unless it was scorpions they are talking about.

So in the attempt to turn the other cheek, we should let all potential terrorists withhold information that could save the lives of others? Or let them go back to the battlefield to kill more Americans?



G&P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by inthebox

I never said I was for torture....

So in the attempt to turn the other cheek, we should let all potential terrorists withhold information that could save the lives of others? or let them go back to the battlefield to kill more Americans?

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Hello again, in:

Your post demonstrates the schizophrenia of your side. On the one had you say you don't support torture, then on the other hand, you do.

You can't have it both ways. Sorry.

excon

There are Christians in many parts of the world today that would gladly exchange the torture that they are subjected to in favor of torture a la Gitmo.

Maybe we could just show them videos of nude women. I think they believe if they see a nude woman, it makes them unclean and Hell bound.

But I suppose some people would call that torture as well.

Maybe offer them bacon for breakfast?