I have been married for 12 years. My husband was desperate to be with me... I was indifferent but needed security. I wasn't a good wife for the bulk of our marriage - have depression, don't deal with crisis well, moody, quick temper and very nagging/obsessive about tidiness etc. He put up with much of it. His family don't like me, having seen some of the above, and his surviving mum and I don't talk - he sees her without me. His teenage daughter lived with us from 15 to 18 and also doesn't like me because she saw me argue with him a lot. She doesn't visit us - he visits here. His mum feeds daughter with bad things about me, I know.
Few years ago tables turned - he started going out more... started saying he wanted to leave... every time I begged him not to... things just got worse and worse. I lost my job of 20 years and with husband pulling away and the depression I fell apart... threatened suicide. He pulled away further. I started my own pet business but it doesn't carry the same respect. Now he goes out all the time... he works from 4.15am to noon... then twice or three times a week he plays golf then goes on for a curry with his friends. Every night at 6pm he goes to the pub for two hours. He says his friends are more fun... he seems closer to one of them than he is to me. I got drunk one night when I got home from breast cancer check with negative results and he'd gone to the pub and turned his mobile off. I drove to the pub and he went out the back way and I shouted at his friend that I hated him. Husband now even more resentful of me. He says he will stay in the marriage as long as I stop criticising him... but nothing I say makes him want to spend an evening or day with me...
What I want to know is can I turn this around or do some men just prefer the company of their friends? Do they bond more with men than women so I don't have a chance to get his heart back? It feels like a pattern that can't be broken.

Lots of damage done, lots of trust breeched, lots of adapting to a dysfunctional marriage. You both need professional help, if this is to be healed. And it may not be... but making an honest attempt is the only way to find out.

While some men need more social structure outside the marriage than others, I think you know what precipitated this situation. The fact that your husband has stayed in the marriage is surprising. Maybe its good news. He hasn't lost faith that it can be better, and is willing to stay in the relationship as long as you treat him as he deserves to be treated.

On the other side, in a way he's found his own way to leave the marriage. Maybe not in full, but he's coping with the situation indirectly through his friends. While a little support is always good, really he's not facing the real issue... of demanding that you honor your vows or decide that its too much to ask.


The real question you should be asking has NOTHING to do with how to make your husband change his behaviour.

The real question you need to ask is how to change your behaviour.

You admit to it, and see all around you as against you. Until you address your behaviour, you really don't have a chance to honestly save and have a marriage that expresses the full meaning of the commitment you both gave to each other.

I think you have a chance... but its heartfelt work on your side first. He'll likely be willing to be right there if he sees an honest attempt.

Thanks for the replies. Just to upate, this weekend he was with friends all Friday/Friday evening... Saturday spent all day/evening with his mum and friends at a outdoor music event (champagne the lot)... Sunday he came in at noon, got his golf clubs and was off again. (knowing he wouldn't be home tonight because of work. ) This is treating me, the home, our dogs... like doormats.
I really want to say to him today that I will go ahead with the 6 week mortgage application to take over his half of the house (I posted these forms last week)... it will cost me £600. If in 6 weeks time we see an improvement then I will cancel the appliction and lose that money. I want to tell him I want this to work, and I will do my best to give him the freedom he wants, but he needs to give me a place in his life which I don't have, so there isn't much point me being with him.
What do you think

Thank you, can you read my next post under this and let me know what you think.. as Im not sure that even if Iturned into the most perfect wife in the world he will ever stop treating me like a piece of the furniture now

I just don't think you get it.

His behaviour is likely unacceptable to anyone in a healthy marriage. He is avoiding you and avoiding the problems of the marriage. He has essentially left the marriage without doing so formally.

But you did it first.

And your tone suggests you are more interested in modifying his behaviour than really solving any issues. Taking on the mortgage to strongarm him into better behaviour is more of the same... you not wanting to do any work, and wanting your way.

The marriage is falling apart because of both of your behaviours... but it seems like you are more interesting it making this his fault than you are interested in making an effort to honor your vows.

If it sounds like too much work to do for an uncertain outcome, well then its over. But don't blame him, the guy who has still stayed around (though barely so), for the things you did early on that drove him away.

If you are willing to seek some help with the marriage, perhaps he would too.

Either way, you need to figure out how to change your actions and behaviour, or these problems will continue to follow you whether you are with him or you are alone.

Quit debating and make an appointment for both of you at a marriage counselor. If he won't go, go yourself. Actions speak louder than words here, okay? :rolleyes:

Don't sell yourself too short, Rose. Maybe there's more to it than I read in your posts, but being a "difficult to deal with" type of person doesn't automatically make you a bad person or a bad wife.

It's true that your "indifference" has led to a lot of resentment in your husband, and it will take a lot of work to turn that around. I think it is unrealitic however to give yoruself a deadline of six weeks. You've had 12 years to come to your realization, give him some time to change his tune also.

There must be something you can do that will show him that you are willing to put effort back into your marriage - Maybe it's a nice meal at home, or a fun night out - Something that shows your intentions, beyond just your words.

Like KP said - You have a lot of work to do. If you think it's too much work, best to end the marriage and move on with your life.

Please can you comment on the following e.mail conversation I had with my husband this morning. It is long but I want to see if it means anything. I appreciate your thoughts and that is why I am sharing what for me is hard. Please understand that what he says is his view of things... I see it very differently i.e. his mother has made if very hard for me, and has sole control over his daughter and has turned her against me. The reason he can't have friends around is because WE hae argued... and it takes two. I have never insulted anyone in our house. But Id like your thoughts anyway.

My Husband wrote: I am ready to leave this marriage as I believe it is bad for you and for me. For the last 3 years my Mother and Daughter have refused to come to my house which means the only time I can see them is away from the house. This I have done but it's not right. I never invite my friends to the house because I have no confidence that you will talk to them or treat them with respect. So I see them away from the house. This means I can never cook for them, which I love. I can never ask people to come and stay for the weekend, which I'd love to do. My home life is therefore me and you. For most of the time you are hostile to me - not then surprising that I don't want to spend much time there. The only time we have people round is when it's arranged at the last minute.
I will not actively seek to move out in the next few weeks. I hope in that time you can show me that you can change and let's be very clear about this, you need to change. Not me, not my friends, not my family. If within a few months nothing has changed and we've had more rows then I will start to look for somewhere else to live.
I am a gregarious person. I don't see anything wrong in going to the pub every night to see who's around and have a chat. If things improve, who knows you might start coming with me. You don't have to, but it would be nice. But whether you do or don't please understand that I am a person who needs other people and I will NOT stop seeing people on a daily basis.
Let's see what happens.

I replied: I accept everything you have said.
There is just one thing I would like to know so that I know what decision to make myself.
If a few months down the line you see things are better from your point of view, and you have felt comfortable enough to invite someone around for dinner, and we haven't argued... I would like to know if you see the result in the same way as me.
That is a marriage where two people value each other and believe they are the most important people in each others lives (and that isn't about time spent with them it is how you view them). I can go along with everything you say, but my long term goal is to get my soul mate back who I feel close to, who feels close to me... and that love should be something you value and respect and honour more than anything.
That is where I want to get to.
The marriage is the foundation from which you build the rest of your life and go out into the world knowing it is there for you to come back to always.
If you see marriage as having a woman somewhere, that you occasionally have to take to dinner once in a while, who fills up gaps when your friends are busy... who you don't mind having around but can take or leave... that wouldn't fulfill me as a person

And his final response was: And I agree with everything you say. I want a marriage where I value my wife and want to be with her. I would like my soul mate back too. We don't have that at the moment. I don't feel that at the moment and that's what we are trying to get back. I don't know whether we can or not, but I agree with your description of what it should be. But I am honest enough to accept that it may not be possible as we want different things and the marriage has been very badly damaged.

Communication is the key in marriage. It looks like both of you are communicating each others feelings. Now it is time for both of you to go to marriage counseling. If he does not want to go then you should go. If you do not want to go and he does, let him. It would work a lot better if there was a mediator between the two of you. Now instead of talking about it. Do it. Make changes. Work together and try to rekindle that spark that put you two together in the first place.

Joe

He's done with it as is, and, in my opinion, has shown a large threshold for pain. He has not, however, given up. That's amazing.

So, you need to go into this whole heartedly. Don't expect to get all you want. There will be some compromise, but he's still there in the marriage somewhere, and so are you it seems.

Wow!! Had to read this a couple of times to get any take at all but I've come to the conclusion that since you've lost your job your life has been hell and even though you have started another job you still haven't gotten to the point you feel good about yourself. I also suspect you and your husband DO NOT communicate well at all. Truly a shame. Please work on yourself whether your husband joins you or not. You can change yourself but have absolutely no control over others. There are no bad guys here so I'm not buying the victum- oh wo is me stuff but Counselling for YOU is essential.

Do you have a trusted friend or pastor? They usually are very good at listening and helping get to the root of problems and finding solutions. My take on this is when you were working your husband got him a routine he is happy with and you FEEL left out so I can imagine when your situation at work changed you found yourself not only disappointed but angry and frustrated at felt very alone. Instead of talking did you demand, I bet you did and hubby reacted by pulling away. I could be wrong, I truly wish I am, but unless you can get this train wreck off the tracks I see nothing positive, sorry. Please do not give up on the counselling as some are better than others. Maybe instead of demanding time and attention from your husband ask him for help instead and see if he can. Time to change the way you do things. Be kinder and gentler and speak to him about help. NO screaming and no judging. Hope this helps.