I don't know if this is the right place to post this, or If I can even find the right forum to get some advice, I will post my current situation in a few places and will check them all. Please Read

I will try to be brief

Current Situation : I'm a son trying to help out my dad with some information, my mom passed in 2001 so now I live with my dad. A few months ago a company came by and wants to buy every house on my street. Which is very lucky for anyone on this street. Me and my dad have a sale pending on a very nice house not too far from here. However just the other day my dad ran into a sticky situation. He got a call from his laywer, finding out that there was a lien put against the house. The lien is from my mom, when they divorced in 1992 my dad never knew anything about this lien ever, there was never a co-sign or anything. My mom had her name on the title, the papers were signed 6 days before she signed separation papers stating that no one would collect eachothers debts if any.

If this lien gets placed on my dad, he may not be able to pay for it and we are screwed, completely.

Could someone in the state of divorce create a lien against the house without knowledge or consent of the deed owner?

What options does my dad have to remove this lien.

I hope I made sense, I only know so much. I can post more information within time, I hope that someone replies who knows a thing or two about house liens.

If anyone can help me, thank you

Hello viper:

You made sense, but more info is needed. The lien is against the house, not against your dad. You didn't state what the lien is for, nor how much, nor who placed it. Did your mother get a loan and use the house as collateral?

If so, and it happened before they were divorced, and she didn't forge your fathers signature, and you live in a state where one spouse can obligate the other, and the title is held correctly, and other if's, then your dad is going to owe somebody.

However, as you can see, there are LOTS of if's in that equation - holes that need filling. However, TIME is of the essence here - you have a contract on a new house. You need a real estate attorney - and you need him NOW.

excon

I'm out looking for all the information I can get about this, trying to help my dad out, he has the laywers, but frankly I don't trust them. Different story, but in short, my dad hasn't spoken to his real laywer in over a month, paralegal is screening all his calls/emails and lied to my dad but like I said different story.

More info:
This is the state of New York.
My mom and dad's name were both on the deed.
When the divorve occurred she gave all equity to my dad, she didn't ever pay for the house my dad did.
The lien was put on 6 days before the divorve was finalized. But in the state of separation it was done.
Dad knew nothing about it, no co-signment
Is New York a state were you can overide others on the deed for a lien?
My mom went on Social Sec. or DSS or something for a while, which is what the lien is for, however with my knowledge you have to state an amount for the lien, it can't be something over time?
No idea how much the lien is as of yet.

We only have 20 days to clear this up.

Thank you excon, hope you can help somemore, I'm just trying to get as much info as possible.

Hello again viper:

Dude, this is a mess. If your dad has lawyers that he can't talk to and neither of you trust, nothing good is going to come out of this situation.

Sounds like your dad is going to do, what he's going to do. Bummer. Looks like he's going down in flames.

excon

My dad is a good guy and a hard worker, I'd hate to see that.

Wouldn't the lien be illegal or fraudulent since it wasn't filed correctly in terms of process.

For one my dad knew nothing about it
For two my dad never co-signed it

Ex, you said something about states where you can obligate the other. Do you know if New York is one of those states?

Also wouldn't an exact amount have to be filed, or are over-time charges legal with liens.

Dude thanks for anything and everything so far.

Hello again viperdude:

It might be, could be, and probably is. But I don't know! It's too deep, and gone on too long, with too many layers, and too many unknowns for anybody to make an absolute determination. That's why he needs direct, quick and clear legal advice – NOW.

If that's not happening, then it's not happening. I hate to see it too, but it's not AFTER the fact. He does have a choice. He's just not making it. Bad things DO happen to good people. Worse things happen to people in denial.

Bummer.

excon

PS> We have a real estate expert here from Long Island. Maybe he'll give us his 2 cents.

Thanks man, I'll tell him what he needs to hear.

Let me add some things here. A lien is a notice of debt placed on property. It basically says the owner of the property owes someone some money. That someone is securing the debt by placing the lien. It means that the property can't be sold without satisfying the lien.

Now, this is usually NOT a big deal. What generally happens, is the lienholder is represented at the closing and a check is issued to them out of the proceeds of the sale.

There are several points I don't understand here. Like who is the lienholder? Is it the state? What is the lien for? Is it for money she received from SSA or DSS? If so, when did she receive these funds, before or after the divorce?

If she was legally part owner of the house at the time the lien was filed, it was filed against her half interest in the house. Therefore, its possible that there was no legal need to inform your father. Most likely, they can only take up to half the value to satisfy the lien. But if papers were signed and executed to turn her portion in the house over to your father, then the lien may be invalid.

So you need to find out EXACTLY who the lienholder is, what the lien was for and how much is owed. If we know some of that we may be able to advise further. But your father's atty should be representing him in this.

Wow more posts, thanks.

My dads at work, so I'm doing this for him. The lawyers office still hasn't called with the amount.

The lienholder would be my mom, who has passed.
I ASSUME that if it was for DSS/SSA that the money owed would be after the divorce. If it was before it wouldn't make sense why my mom would need any benefits at all if she's in a house and everyone is doing well.
(updated just talked to my dad while writing this: apparently the money from DSS was before the divorce which makes no sense at all, but that's what the dates say)

Then the papers were signed for her name to be taken off the deed, equity, separation and decry of divorce.

I think what may have happened is since she is gone, DSS/SSA is looking at my dad for the money, I'm not sure if it works like that.

Best option is to get the lien dissovled.

I'm told to check something out about a quiet title action
( a quiet title action will give the party seeking such relief no cause of action against previous owners of the property. )

I hope the lien is invalid.

You see, a big company is buying all the houses on this street, 6 houses to be exact, all the contracts have been signed and this lien just appeared yesterday. All the houses are going to be demolished, not sure what they are going to build. As the contract states we have 20 days left in this. If this lien is a huge amount, the house may not be sold, then bad things happen. Like neighbors coming to kill us because they lost their chance to live in their new dream houses.

Hello again vipersniper:

Or, the offer goes HIGHER, (certainly enough to cover the lien)... Why do you think the developer will give up? How much can the lien be anyway, a few thousand $$?

My question is not when she drew benefits. My question is why do they want them back? That's unusual.

AGAIN, and I say it LOUDLY - HE NEEDS AN ATTORNEY, or it's going to cost him big time!

excon

He has a lawyer but has been unable to talk to him directly for just over a month. He's a bit stubborn I've been telling him to get in touch with him directly for a while now. He has tried though.

Good lawyer, bad paralegal.

The paralegal has been handling much of the processes has lied to my dad, ordered an abstract of title ( $600 document ) without my dads permission, and he had to pay for it. When that happened he tried calling his lawyers private line left a message, Even mentioned the paralegal. She called back under his number; she has been screening the calls/emails. My dad may finally get in touch with him today.
P.S- She lied about sending a letter saying that the deal was solid and the developers are buying the house. If we got the letter sooner, the house we want to buy, wouldn't have had an open house and would be in sale pending mode ( taken off the market )
She also lied about leaving a voicemail about the same thing. ( my dad scans the voicemails every day )

So yes layers upon layers of bullsh*t

It makes absolutely NO sense for your mom to be the lienholder. Why would she put a lien against property she owns? There is no reason for that. She MIGHT want to place a lien against your dad's half, but if you awarded it to him as part of the divorce, then there would be no reason for that either. The only reason she could obtain a lien was if your dad owed her money, but since the lien was applied before the divorce and she sighed over the house in the divorce, the lien should be moot. Even if it wasn't, any debt he owed her would have died with her or at least gone into her estate.

It does, however, make sense for DSS/SSA to have filed a lien. But they would only do that in case of either a fraud or a windfall. If they paid her money and she was hiding assets, that's the main reason they might have filed a lien. As excon said; "why would they want money back"??

You obviously don't have the whole story here. AND YOU NEED TO GET THE EXACT FACTS! Before you go any further. A lot of what you say makes no sense.

If the developer really wants the property, they will probably bump up the price to cover the lien. BTW, how did the lien come to light? Did the developer's title search uncover it or your attorneys?

The paralegal was right in order the abstract of title. You wouldn't want the developer to surprise you with it. Have you gotten a copy of it? That should give details of the lien. Or you can go down to the county clerk's office to get it.

Hello again viper:

Your dad needs to go down to the lawyers office and plunk his butt down and not leave until he speaks to his lawyer in person. Yes, the lawyer is skilled in legal affairs and should be a very intimidating individual - that's what your dad wants.

But, your dad needs to get, that the lawyer is his employee, and like any employee, he needs to be managed, or he needs to be fired. He should call first, and let them know he's coming, and then he needs to deliver that message in person, and mean every word of it.

There are lots and lots of qualified lawyers.

I'm done.

excon

PS> What this lawyer is doing is actually very typical behavior among lawyers. But, they're quick to change their tune when they see their fee walking out the door.