Hello Everyone,

You know since I have been coming to this board many have tried to degrade those who believe in a Creator. For these one, think about this.
For Many years now, scientific experts in various field of Science have perceived that there is many intelligent designs in the universe. Some have found it illogical to think that the intricate complexity of life on earth came about by chance. When we really think about it, consider this what a man named Paul said a long time ago. “His (the Creator) invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world's creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made.” Romans 1:20.

Now with those words in your mind, take a close look at the human body, the earth, the vast universe, the ocean depths. Examine the fascinating world of insect, of plant, of animals, whatever field interests you. Then using your power of reason, ask yourself what convinces me that there is a Creator?

Here are my three answers:
1- We have a spiritual side which if we evolved would not be needed.
2- We have the need and desire to show emotions. Sadness, joy, happiness, etc. Our Creator has feelings. If we evolved, where did the ability to have emotions come from. The Bible explains, we are made in God's image.
3- We also have a desire to learn, yet it is not needed for survival. Where does such desire come from, if we evolved?
4- How was it known that man would need plants to sustain life? If we evolved how
Was it know how much oxygen we needed to survive.


These are just four evidences that I have that make me believe in a Creator and not in evolution. What is your evidence that there is a Creator or if you believe you believe in evolution, how do you explain these well known facts and what caused them to come about?

Take care,
Hope12

You had me agreeing with you for a bit there, then you blew it. I consider myself a deist. This means I believe that some intelligent force created the universe as we know it. I believe this because, as you point out, the complexity of the universe and its parts, make it more logical that some intelligence was behind its creation. So lets say we agree on that score.

But then you go way beyond that. My main objection is your contention that evolution and intelligent design are contradictory. Why couldn't evolution be PART of the intelligent design? Why can you not even consider the intelligent design included rules and natural laws that led to evolution? There is too much scientific evidence, In my opinion, to deny the logic of evolution. So that leads me to believe that evolution is just a part of the intelligent design.

As for your 4 (not 3) reasons;
1- I don't see the logic. Why does a spirtual side preclude evolution?
2- The same thing goes with emotion.
3- The desire to learn IS very much needed for survival. How can we survive if we don't learn and adapt?
4- Again, what does one thing have to do with another?

Sorry, Hope, but your arguments don't hold a lot of water. There is almost no cause and effect in them. The conclusions you draw don't follow from the points you make. The only cause and effect argument you present that makes sense is the one about the complexity of the universe leading logically to a belief in some intelligence behind its design.

But that argument can be used to support evolution as an intelligently designed system to allow for adaptation to changing conditions.

I agree with Scott. Your reasoning is indeed faulty. Just because you don't understand something doesn't automatically preclude that there is a "Creator". Get an in-depth education in chemistry, physics, sociology, etc. and you'll understand a lot more of what you see.

Plus the preaching gets on people's nerves. There are a lot of religions out there, none is better than another. I'm happy you found yours but please stop debasing those that don't share your religion.

Some more thoughts on your 4 points.
1- You claim we have a "spirtual side". This is defined as a concern with religious values. But, clearly, not all people are so concerned and clearly those that are have different concerns (different religions). In point of fact, religions evolved as a way for humans to deal with matters that were beyond their understanding. The spirtual side is actually a way of adapting social interaction.

2-The need to display and express emotion is part of the complex structure of the mind. Humans are not the only animal to display emotion. Does not a dog wag its tail when happy? Does not a mother cat protect its kittens? Were dogs made in the Creator's image as well?

3- Again, learning is an adaptation, its very much part of the need to survive.

4- This goes back to your argument that the complexity of the universe logically infers a creator. But who is to say that such a thing was determined right from the start? Isn't it more logical to think that the enormous degree of complexity did not occur all at once. Isn't it more logical that it's the result of adaptaton? That the creator laid a groundwork of rules and natural laws and then let the chips fall where they may!

Hello Scott and Karma,
Please allow me to apologize if I have come across preachy. I didn't mean to. I am though search with an open mind to try and see what evolutionists feel about this. My questions are that if we evolved then please explain to me how we received emotions, the desire to learn, and how did the process of evolution figure out how much oxygen we needed to survive?

We do not need emotions, nor do we need to continue to learn in order to survive. How come we have these abilities but do not really need them? If we evolved how then was it realized just how much oxygen we needed to live? I am serious about this, I have an open mind and I am trying to understand about evolution, but these questions, just keep coming back into my mind. Can you help me to understand this please?

Thanks and again I really was not trying to be preachy,
Take care,
Hope12

Just a quick one about the oxygen - if the levels of oxygen were different we would have evolved differently. Only the creatures that could survive the current level survived! The creatures that had exactly the right need for oxygen did better than those with the wrong "tuning" and therefore over ran them in the race for food etc.

Ok, I'll try to answer your questions.

Why do you say we don't need emotions? Man is a social animal. Emotions are just one way of communication. As I pointed out, man is not the only animal who expresses emotions. We need emotion to communicate just as much as we need language.

Learning IS a survival skill. It certainly is needed to be able to survive. Survival is a product of adapting to environment and learning is part of adapting.

Your question about oxygen helps prove evolution. Look at peoples who have lived at high altitudes for generations. They have become used to the thinner air, evolved to adapt to their environment.

So, you see, your premises are incorrect. Which makes your conclusions unsupported.

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Originally Posted by Hope12

Hello Scott and Karma,
Please allow me to apologize if I have come across preachy. I didn't mean to. I am though search with an open mind to try and see what evolutionists feel about this. My questions are that if we evolved then please explain to me how we received emotions, the desire to learn, and how did the process of evolution figure out how much oxygen we needed to survive?

We do not need emotions, nor do we need to continue to learn in order to survive. How come we have these abilities but do not really need them? If we evolved how then was it realized just how much oxygen we needed to live? I am serious about this, I have an open mind and I am trying to understand about evolution, but these questions, just keep coming back into my mind. Can you help me to understand this please?

Thanks and again I really was not trying to be preachy,
take care,
Hope12

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It has been shown that man can adapt to almost any condition as he can figure out ways to survive in the environs of this planet and beyond. As he grows to understand himself he dominates all of the Earth, which I think he was put here to do. For all the knowledge of men though there is a lot we do not know and as we find out more we adapt more. Science may not be able to explain everything but our search for more knowledge goes on and sometimes we seek to explain the unexplainable for now. As time goes even the unexplained things will coming to light and increase or knowledge of not only the earth but beyond. This is what sets us as humans apart from the other animals. Evolution is nothing more than the changing and adapting to the environment, as intelligent design is the belief that there is something behind the way things work. Most attribute this to being God. Nobody really knows at this point but people have their beliefs and opinions. Keeping an open mind though, I think, is the key to be able to see things as they are and examine facts and process the information as it presents itself. Emotions and instincts are a part of us as humans and a fact that I accept as well as the spiritual side of being human that connects us to that higher power we need for strength to keep moving ahead. Sorry about the length of this post I tend to ramble, but I hope I've helped. Of course I realise I may be way off base but its just the way I see it.

I believe that a very complex and interconnected system had to be present and come together for life to grow and develop on Earth. While rare, I think it is not unique… I think these same ingredients are present elsewhere in the universe and life has developed in other places as well.

I believe in God. As “The Creator”, God is somehow responsible for how all of these ingredients for life have come together on Earth, and elsewhere in the universe.

I don't know how these two things mesh together, but I believe they do.

I think of God as a “great engineer” in this respect, but I don't deny that things have been happening here for millions of years … human have been evolving since our earliest days of being conscious on this planet.

Someday – Our “science” will catch up with our “faith”… and then we'll finally “get it”.

:)

Hi Y'all

I believe God did create everything(Intelligent Design) then put some natural laws into place that plants or animals would evolve or adapt to their environment. I don't think they evolve to another species though, at least not for man.
Creationists believe this universe is much younger than scientists describe. They believe that the earth was created in a mature state, as Adam was created in an adult form. Possibly only 7 thousand yrs. Old. This is their answer to the "carbon dating" argument.
God gave man a spirit to separate him (an give dominion over) the animals.
God gave man a soul(mind,will,& emotions) Higher animals have a soul too. (pets) so I don't see any conflict there. God knows what each would need to survive and gave us the intelligence to obtain it & not take it for granted(global warming)
When I think of the planet, etc. I find an answer in knowing that God is in control & has a Plan for His creations. Something more soothing to the heart(spirit) then letting the world be based on impersonal karma.
Glory be to Him, I say!

Amen.

What if the creator uses evolution to keep us humans moving along and getting smarter? Can this be intelligent design?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

What if the creator uses evolution to keep us humans moving along and getting smarter? Can this be intelligent design?

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Considering how us humans have turned out, it may not be considered intelligent :D