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We are finishing our basement and want to put a switch for shop lights at the bottom of our stairs and one on the outside of two already finished rooms.We are using 12/3 wire and have come to a standstill.All is wired but no power to the receptacles for the shop lights.HELP! What have we done wrong and is there a fix. Thank you.Rozey.:confused:
Make one switch work first. Bring wire to the switch at the bottom of the stairs as an input to the switch. Wire the output of that switch to the shop light. Once you have the light working, the other switches can be wired as parallel circuits to that switch. A junction box is recommended to bring all 3 switch lines together then run the output of the junction box to the light. Keep the color codes consistent:
black = hot
white = common, neutral
green or bare = ground
If you want all 3 switches to interact with each other, that begins a whole new engineering scheme.
Thanks for the info.and we will be using the switches to turn lights on/off at one end of the basement and the same at the other end.Is there any thing else that I may have to do?As you can tell I'm 'electric-illiterate' :p thanks again ;Rozey
I assume that the switch near the outside of two already finished rooms is one single switch. If otherwise your installation becomes much more difficult, something for an expert.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozey
For switching from two different points you have to use 'hotel' switches, which are switches that can make a connection in both positions.
You have to rewire in so far that you require only two switching wires between both switches.
Wiring : Take an unswitched hot wire (black) to one side of the lightfitting. The other side of the light fitting goes to the common of the first 'hotel' switch. The common is the connection that makes either contact with in/output 1 or 2.
Wire one wire between in/output 1 of both switches, and one wire between in/output 2 of both switches.
The common of the second 'hotel' switch goes to neutral (white).
How does this work?
If switch 1 is switched to wire one, and switch 2 is switched to wire 2, than the lightfitting has no connection to neutral, so the lights are off.
If any of the switches is flipped, there is a connection, and the lights are on.
No matter the position of any switch, the other switch can switch on or off the lights.
Note : do not use standard switches : purchase two 'hotel' switches. Only these will function properly.
Let me please know how this worked out!
As I posted elsewhere :Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozey
I assume that the switch near the outside of two already finished rooms is one single switch. If otherwise your installation becomes much more difficult, something for an expert.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozey
For switching from two different points you have to use 'hotel' switches, which are switches that can make a connection in both positions.
You have to rewire in so far that you require only two switching wires between both switches.
Wiring : Take an unswitched hot wire (black) to one side of the lightfitting. The other side of the light fitting goes to the common of the first 'hotel' switch. The common is the connection that makes either contact with in/output 1 or 2.
Wire one wire between in/output 1 of both switches, and one wire between in/output 2 of both switches.
The common of the second 'hotel' switch goes to neutral (white).
How does this work?
If switch 1 is switched to wire one, and switch 2 is switched to wire 2, than the lightfitting has no connection to neutral, so the lights are off.
If any of the switches is flipped, there is a connection, and the lights are on.
No matter the position of any switch, the other switch can switch on or off the lights.
Note : do not use standard switches : purchase two 'hotel' switches. Only these will function properly.
Let me please know how this worked out!
And no : if you wire as I suggested, there is nothing else you have to do.
You could help the environment by installing fluorescent saving or LED lamps, though !
Power in; 3 way switch,receptacle,receptacle,receptacle,3 way switch.I apologize for the continuing saga on this subject but my husband has just informed me that I am not asking in enough detail.he was unaware that I am going to an outside source.thanks again... Rozey:o
Rozey
Please see follow-up posts on your other topics on the same for detailed info.
The one that refers to two circuits, one of which has a hotel-switch arrangement.
If you still have querries, just let me know what they are.
:)
We are putting in a drop ceiling using shop lights and frosted panels as covers;etc.the issue is we have a plan to put a switch at the entrance of the room to control one half of the large 'family room' and a switch for the other half{double switch}there are 5 lights in total that plug into receptacles;via the shop lights;then at the other end of the room as to go into the other rooms we want a way to shut off the lights without crossing back to the other end of the room to do so.I hope this is more detailed and again this is me trying to help my husband and not succeeding.thanks again.Rozey
I've never heard the term "hotel switches". We always called them "three-way switches", even though there are only two switches on the circuit.
Three-way switches have a 'unique' terminal and two "traveling" terminals. A pair of wires runs between the "traveling" terminals. The unique terminal on one switch connects to the "line" (usually black wire) and the unique terminal of the other switch connects to the light. The travelers switch the power between the switches.
We are putting in a drop ceiling using shop lights and frosted panels as covers;etc.the issue is we have a plan to put a switch at the entrance of the room to control one half of the large 'family room' and a switch for the other half{double switch}there are 5 lights in total that plug into receptacles;via the shop lights;then at the other end of the room as to go into the other rooms we want a way to shut off the lights without crossing back to the other end of the room to do so.I hope this is more detailed and again this is me trying to help my husband and not succeeding.thanks again.Rozey.. PS wasn't sure if this came in as a question or an answer {unfamiliar with how to use this site so I thought I'd try to post it as a new question sorry for any inconvenience .}
Rozey
... put a switch at the entrance of the room to control one half of the large 'family room' and a switch for the other half{double switch}there are 5 lights in total that plug into receptacles;via the shop lights;then at the other end of the room as to go into the other rooms we want a way to shut off the lights without crossing back to the other end of the room to do so.
There are two circuits involved here.
Circuit one : entrance of room for one half of room. To be switched from both sides of the room.
Circuit two : other half of room (towards other rooms). Additional here is the capacity to interrupt circuit one from a second switch.
You will have to place TWO switches next to each other at location two.
Switch 1 a normal on/off switch for circuit two.
Switch to a 'hotel' switch (together with a second 'hotel' switch) for cicuit one.
Wiring :
Circuit one :
Switching from both sides : life (black) direct to all lightfittings, and other side of all light fittings to 'hotel switch' one common. Two switching wires from 'hotel' switch one to 'hotel' switch two.
Common contact of second 'hotel' switch to neutral (white).
Circuit two : life (black) direct to switch contact, and second switch contact direct to all lightfittings in that circuit. Other side of all lightfittings to neutral (white).
As stated before : it is possible to combine the two switches next to each other in one, but that requires the services of an electrical professional, because some (expensive) electronics have to be installed.
Does this cover your requirements?
In many countries these switches are called 'hotel' switches. It is possible that you call them 3-way switches, but that name is rather confusing, as there are only 2 switched in/out contacts involved, not three. The problem was not in the name of the switch, but in the wiring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perito
As Rozey rephrased here question elsewhere :
... put a switch at the entrance of the room to control one half of the large 'family room' and a switch for the other half{double switch}there are 5 lights in total that plug into receptacles;via the shop lights;then at the other end of the room as to go into the other rooms we want a way to shut off the lights without crossing back to the other end of the room to do so.
My response : there are two circuits involved here.
Circuit one : entrance of room for one half of room. To be switched from both sides of the room.
Circuit two : other half of room (towards other rooms). Additional here is the capacity to interrupt circuit one from a second switch.
You will have to place TWO switches next to each other at location two.
Switch 1 a normal on/off switch for circuit two.
Switch to a 'hotel' switch (together with a second 'hotel' switch) for cicuit one.
Wiring :
Circuit one :
Switching from both sides : life (black) direct to all lightfittings, and other side of all light fittings to 'hotel switch' one common. Two switching wires from 'hotel' switch one to 'hotel' switch two.
Common contact of second 'hotel' switch to neutral (white).
Circuit two : life (black) direct to switch contact, and second switch contact direct to all lightfittings in that circuit. Other side of all lightfittings to neutral (white).
As stated before : it is possible to combine the two switches next to each other in one, but that requires the services of an electrical professional, because some (expensive) electronics have to be installed.
Does this cover your requirements?
Rozey
... put a switch at the entrance of the room to control one half of the large 'family room' and a switch for the other half{double switch}there are 5 lights in total that plug into receptacles;via the shop lights;then at the other end of the room as to go into the other rooms we want a way to shut off the lights without crossing back to the other end of the room to do so.
There are two circuits involved here.
Circuit one : entrance of room for one half of room. To be switched from both sides of the room.
Circuit two : other half of room (towards other rooms). Additional here is the capacity to interrupt circuit one from a second switch.
You will have to place TWO switches next to each other at location two.
Switch 1 a normal on/off switch for circuit two.
Switch to a 'hotel' switch (together with a second 'hotel' switch) for cicuit one.
Wiring :
Circuit one :
Switching from both sides : life (black) direct to all lightfittings, and other side of all light fittings to 'hotel switch' one common. Two switching wires from 'hotel' switch one to 'hotel' switch two.
Common contact of second 'hotel' switch to neutral (white).
Circuit two : life (black) direct to switch contact, and second switch contact direct to all lightfittings in that circuit. Other side of all lightfittings to neutral (white).
As stated before : it is possible to combine the two switches next to each other in one, but that requires the services of an electrical professional, because some (expensive) electronics have to be installed.
Does this cover your requirements?
Rozey,
Are you here in the U.S.A. I ask this because Sarian is using terms that are not used here in the U.S.A.
For example, "Hotel Switch". Here that switch is defined and listed by the NEC as a three way switch. It gets it name because there are three terminal points on the switch. One for supply and two for "Travelers". Also, "Ungrounded conductor" is described as Hot or Live and is identified as several different colors such as Black, or Red. Neutral is defined as the Grounded conductor and identified as White or gray. Bare, green or green with yellow stripes is called the Equipment Grounding Conductor.
Sarian also uses several other foreign terms (with respect to the U.S.A. NEC code) that may be misleading to you.
So before I create a tempest in a teapot, are you here in the U.S.A. or in another nation?
"Circuit one :
switching from both sides : life (black) direct to all light fittings, and other side of all light fittings to 'hotel switch' one common. Two switching wires from 'hotel' switch one to 'hotel' switch two.
Common contact of second 'hotel' switch to neutral (white).
Circuit two : life (black) direct to switch contact, and second switch contact direct to all light fittings in that circuit. Other side of all light fittings to neutral (white).
As stated before : it is possible to combine the two switches next to each other in one, but that requires the services of an electrical professional, because some (expensive) electronics have to be installed."
What is not defined in your question is where the power supply will be coming from and how will it be routed to your switches. Will you deliver the supply cable to a central point in the ceiling or will it be delivered to one of the switches. Which will you choose. Until we have that piece of information we are at a stopping point.
I noticed that you are using 12/3 w/ground cable. I'm assuming that you will also be feeding 20 amp circuit from a 20 amp breaker in your main panel, correct?
If that is true, than a 12/3 w/ground run from the panel using two 20 amp breakers and a shared neutral will be fine for the supply line. You will also need 12/3 to run between the two three way switches. The rest can be accomplished using 12/2 w/ground
Rozey,
One other thought. I would suggest using two sets of three way switches on both ends of the room. That way both sets of lights can be controlled from either end of the new "family room."
Would you be able to provide a picture of what you done so far? Also, are the lights designed to plug into receptacles or are they to be direct wired together? In either case you need to be installing junction boxes to contain the wiring or device boxes to install the receptacle into.
donf
Good points, but please note that I only advised Rozey what to do and how to do. I did not use the term 'three way switches' because that term is actually incorrect. The required circuitry needs two way switches (for which the official international name is 'hotel' switch).
Please note that the Internet is worldwide, and that the US is part of that world too.
No tempest in that teapot, though ! :)
Sarnian,
A pleasure to meet you. Where in the world are you?
I disagree with you wrt the term "Hotel switch". I do agree that my view is parochial in that I study only U.S. books. However that said, there is no listed product that I can find in any resource that I have that uses the term "Hotel Switch".
Here in the U.S. all electrical products must be listed to be sold. Hotel Switch is not defined as a listed product. A general description of "Switches" is found in the U.S.A NEC in Section 404.
This link (with circuitry and description) describes it properly as a two-way switch.Quote:
Originally Posted by donf
The term three way switch is factually incorrect, and must be local US slang.
You may not use the word 'hotel' switch in the US, but the circuitry solution I described was correct and solving the problem of the poster. The word 'hotel' indicates in many languages it to be a two way switch without mid-position.
Sarian,
I did a Google search on the term "Hotel Switches" and received plenty of responses.
I went to several site and reviewed their products. One thing they all had in common was that each switch assembly designated as a Hotel Switch also said that it was for Hotel use only.
Since Rozey is renovating her home, a residence, those switches could not be used in her home. Do they make Home use "Hotel Switches" in your neck of the world?
Over here these switches are clustered under the title of snap switches and then broken down by specific type.
I'm going to scan through some of the books I have handy to see if any of them define this switch as a two way switch.
A three way switch would be identified by the two traveler connections and the one supply. Also, the snap handle will not be marked as ON or OFF.
I do not believe that a three way switch is slang. It specifically means a switch with one input and two outputs. But I'll keep looking.
Sarian,
Check this link out, please.
home.howstuffworks.com/three-way.htm
Unfortunately, this does not correctly describe the conductor wiring as defined by the NEC manual.
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