Ask Me Help Desk - Rewiring old chandelier

I found a beautiful, old 20's, 5-arm painted metal chandelier at an auction for $20, but it has the original cracked fabric wiring. The lamp shop wants $200 to wire it. They said I could buy the new arm-sockets, prewired for $6 each, but the old sockets aren't safe. I took the thing apart and it looks like they ran a wire from each side of each socket and hooked the positive sides together with electricians black tap, ditto for the negative, and ran a wire for each up the chain. There is a third wire, which I assume is a ground, but it doesn't come from the two taped bundles. Maybe they grounded from the metal of the lamp.

My question is, how do I wire this thing? Do I connect all the negative arm wires with a wire nut and add a wire to travel to the ceiling, ditto positive and ground wires from the new sockets? Seems right to me, but I don't want to catch my house on fire!

Thanks,
momcandoit

I'm not sure of your electrical abilities, but what most people don't realize when "messing" with electric, is even though you have a black and white wire (typically). The electric only travels "through" the bulbs, not really a + and - like a battery. The 3rd wire is either a ground (not a "neutral"), or it was on a "3way" switch, being controlled by 2 wall switches.

So, from your description, you would want to replicate what it has. I think you're right on the 3rd wire being ground, which is not usually used unless your in a "high tech" code building. None of my lights use this 3rd ground, the entire house wiring would need to be linked all together for this to be effective. The wire layout you describe would allow the bulbs to stay lit, even if one burned out. I would suggest soldering the wires at the connections, wire nut, and tape securely. Also, you only need 14 or possibly 16 gauge wire on the lamp harness. Enjoy!

One other mention, you may if space permits, link the 5 socket wiring to one location, maybe hidden in the canopy somewhere if you can, and then "pig tail" the 5 connection up the chain to the ceiling wire. This essentially brings the power through one wire to meet up with the 2 sets of "5" that you should have. Kind of like an octopus looking deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarkar

I'm not sure of your electrical abilities, but what most people don't realize when "messing" with electric, is even tho you have a black and white wire (typically). The electric only travels "through" the bulbs, not really a + and - like a battery. The 3rd wire is either a ground (not a "neutral"), or it was on a "3way" switch, being controlled by 2 wall switches.

So, from your description, you would want to replicate what it has. I think you're right on the 3rd wire being ground, which is not usually used unless your in a "high tech" code building. None of my lights use this 3rd ground, the entire house wiring would need to be linked all together for this to be effective. The wire layout you describe would allow the bulbs to stay lit, even if one burned out. I would suggest soldering the wires at the connections, wire nut, and tape securely. Also, you only need 14 or possibly 16 gauge wire on the lamp harness. Enjoy!

Well, this is a bit misleading. ALL modern wiring requires a ground. NOT just "high tech" codes. The ground is a safety back-up to allow breakers to trip in case of a fault.

What Jarkar fails to recognize is the fact that he is in Chicagoland. In this part of the country conduit is mandatory for ALL electrical work. Even residential. Most contractors rely on the metallic conduit system for the ground. So it is rare to see an actual ground wire. There is still a ground present and it is not anything high tech.

Also, DO NOT solder the connections. This is not an easy thing to do correctly and is completely unnecessary anyway. Just use quality wire nuts of the right size. Make sure you do not have any copper showing once the splice is done. Tape is also not necessary.

I do agree that there is NO positive and negative. There is hot, neutral and ground.
The ground on a fixture does just connect to the metal frame of the fixture.

In your 20's house if the wiring is original there is likely no ground present.

I'm in California and my house has a green ground wire in the ceiling so no worries. Since I am buying pre-wired, new (to code) socket arms all I have to do is twist and wire-nut white to white, black to black and green to green (or ridged sides vs smooth sides depending on type of wire.) I am going to run one each type of wire up to the ceiling and hook up there.

My dad taught me to build lamps when I was about 12 and I'm comfortable with that, I just never used multiple arms before. My chandelier has a pyramid-shaped cap at the center of the base with a hole in the top, so the wire-nuts will be protected and concealed inside that, with the wires that connect to the ceiling passing through the top hole and up the chain.

Thanks! It will cost me $30 instead of $180!

Hey, your on track sounds good. As for solder, that's an old fashion craftsman way that ensure a solid connection that won't vibrate loose. I agree, it's not very common anymore, but well worth the effort if you can. Quality and safety is important. You would be wise to tape the wire nuts, many people don't realize how much vibration is in a wiring system. And, heck in Ca, it might be wise to add it for earthquake value... Enjoy your 20's chandelier in your modern home, Sounds Great!

p.s. not all wiring is found with "grounds", neutral yes, but rare on most single family residential homes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarkar

Hey, your on track sounds good. As for solder, that's an old fashion craftsman way that ensure a solid connection that won't vibrate loose. I agree, it's not very common anymore, but well worth the effort if you can. Quality and safety is important. You would be wise to tape the wire nuts, many people don't realize how much vibration is in a wiring system. And, heck in Ca, it might be wise to add it for earthquake value... Enjoy your 20's chandelier in your modern home, Sounds Great!

p.s., not all wiring is found with "grounds", neutral yes, but rare on most single family residential homes.

What? We've never had more than a 6.0 epicenter two miles away... perhaps the extra tape is a good idea!
Some people pay for roller coaster rides...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarkar

p.s., not all wiring is found with "grounds", neutral yes, but rare on most single family residential homes.

Like I already said, grounds are NOT "rare".
It has been code for 50 years to have a ground run with the circuit conductors. I'm not sure which code book you have been reading, or if you ever do work outside Chicago, but unless the house is from the 50's or older and has all existing wiring, there is a ground present.

Also, tape does NOT keep a wire nut on. And if it does I bet there is a good bit of arcing going on underneath. Tape is true sign of a DIY or handyman. No real electrician I know uses tape on typical wire nut connections.

And as far as solder goes, if you do it, the splice MUST be mechanically sound before soldering. You CANNOT rely on the solder for the connection.