I am the landlord in OK. We moved out of the house and had a few remaining items in the garage. Honestly, due to the holidays (it was just before Thanksgiving), then Christmas, we just didn't get the remaining items out. I tried to email the tenant about another issue before Thanksgiving and got no response. I emailed the tenant a second time just before the new year and finally heard back. They had been "out of town for 2 wks and were very busy". The garage is about 600+ SF and according to my calculations (I'm an architect), we used approximately 22 SF of the garage. When we removed the items in January, I took pictures. The location of these items was in a corner & along one wall out of the way (and some go with the house - paint & trim). Both cars fit without incident and their bikes & a home gym also occupied the garage without any problem. But, this created a rift in the tenant/landlord relationship AFTER I was asking her when she was going to pay for furniture items she was to purchase from us.

She now has a list of complaints to go along with the above: Ceiling fan, pilot light on fireplace, washer & dishwasher.

1. Ceiling fan in kid's bedroom - never worked. Light works, but fan has never worked. We said we would look at doing something with it in the spring. When the tenant brought it up again, we said we would come & remove the fan (may have a short it in - fan not hooked to electrical) & replace with light we had in there before the we tried to install the fan. Ultimately, she wanted to leave the fan up. But, now is denying that.

2. Pilot light on fireplace - when we removed items in garage, we also lit the pilot on the fireplace for them. It is self-lighting with a button, but we said we would only do this once. She claims the house is cold and does not hold heat (it has 2 zoned HVAC units). She now denies we lit the pilot and says she is without heat!?

3. Washer - it was holding water before we moved out. We scheduled maintenance on it. They wanted to meet repair man. They weren't there the first time he came & rescheduled. They met him at another time, but lied about it saying he never came. Then, again after I was asking her to set up payment for furniture, she starts claiming the washer smells. We scheduled another maintenance trip where we met with the repair man. He found change in the pump & removed it. Then, he ran the rinse cycle and water drained. She is denying the washer is fixed (although it always worked).

4. The dishwasher was making a noise. It works, but there was a noise. Again, the same repair man looked at it & found glass in it, removed it & ran an entire cycle and it no longer made the noise. She is denying the dishwasher is fixed (although it also always worked).

AFTER we were there for the repairs, she tried to file burglary charges on us and assault charges on me (for sticking my finger at her nose although she told police I touched her face). I have email that says the other from her. But, for whatever reason, she has been completely vindictive. They did not pay for the furniture they had for 2 months, so we took it (all except the home gym - too hard to transport). She then tried to claim to police that we had been there other times when we never gave notice. Total lies.

Now, the tenant has given their 30 day notice for the following reasons:
a. We breached the contract for failure to supply heat (pilot on fireplace)
b. We made unlawful entry
c. We did not keep the house in a fit & habitable condition; Maintain in good and safe working order and condition all electrical, plumbing, heating
d. Failure of landlord to deliver possession of dwelling unit to tenant

She is now trying to block us from having access to show the house to potential tenants. I have told her it is in her best interest to help us help her break her lease so that she is no longer obligated to it. But, I have a feeling that her 30 day notice letter along with all the denials of what we have done, she is going to try to sue us for the above & collect damages.

We did make the mistake of using that 22 SF and I surely wish I had just went over & got that out of there but I want to know IF she has a case at all? And what we can do to remedy this? I was thinking that we could pay rent on the 22 SF for 60 days based on the cost/SF of the house/month and giving this as a credit in her itemized statement for the return of the security deposit?? Is that logical?

Any advice??

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Originally Posted by ;

They wanted to meet repair man. They weren't there the first time he came & rescheduled saying he never came. I have email that says the other from her

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I feel bad for you especially because I'm a landlord. My BASIC laws here is, unless you had in the lease stating that the property can be shown after a 30 day notice is given in writing on said property you have to wait until she surrenders it over at the end of that 30 day notice. Legally it is her property and a Landlord can be considered trespassing if not given permission to enter said property. Obviously this is negated for emergency services that may put said property in jeopardy. The best defense is your service man records.He is considered and expert in his field and a non party in a suit which sounds like it may happen. He is the smoking gun as far as improper usage of the washer etc. He will be your burden of proof to cover your "a" "b" "c" on the writ you received. So in short the bottom line is take off the 22sf in calc. from the deposit. Don't forget to add the interest of the security deposit. If you want to avoid this down the road call the renters association and get a book on landlord tenants rights and responsibility book. There may even be a workshop you can go to and they give you the book. Worked for me. IT also helps when you address it to the tenant and can state the basic laws of your state
The 22 SF is a moot point at this level. As,you mentioned it can be remedied by sqf deduction pro rated. The 22sf really has nothing to do with the latter. These tenants were professionals on how to get over on paying for furniture and things. Ether that or they really are NUTS. I won't write it all out here but click on my 21 boat and it should help you for the next renter on pre documenting the state and condition of the property is in at the time when you have a renter ready to sign papers after the written check list you provided on the premises Which would have been real applicable here.

Signed 21 Boat

If I Helped To Answer Your Question Please Rate My Answer

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Originally Posted by Orange2008

Any advice????

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Hello O:

Sure:

(1) I'd wait till they're gone before you try to show the house. They're not going to help you rent it.

(2) Before you rent next time, rent the movie "Pacific Palisades".

(3) Get a better application.

excon

Pacific Palisades? I've seen it several times and why I didn't punch her in the face when she called us "nasty people", "liars", thieves", "lazy" and so on. She also said the house is "garbage" which is a BIG button for me since I designed the house & had it built 5 years ago (garbage? seriously?) I'm a nonviolent person and have never had an altercation where I was even considering that but she was pushing my buttons big time especially standing in the study with my custom made desk telling me she wasn't going to pay for it WHILE all her stuff was on it & she had already been using it for 2 months. The same goes for the BB goal, the Home Gym & the Elliptical machine that were supposed to be paid for & never saw a dime. I'm fortunately that we got them to pay upfront for the dining table, bar stools & air hockey table.

As for showing the home, our lease states "upon the stated 30 day notice by tenant to vacate the property, that the tenant must allow the property to be shown to those who might want to lease the property at the end of the 30 day period. The showing of the property can be at the convenience of the tenant and the landlord, but the tenant must make the property available and presentable during normal hours."

Also, The Oklahoma Landlord and Tenant Acts states "tenant shall not unreasonably withhold consent to the landlord, his agents and employees, to enter into the dwelling unit in order to inspect the premises, make necessary or agreed repairs, decorations, alterations or improvements, supply necessary or agreed services or exhibit the dwelling unit to prospective or actual purchasers, mortgagee, tenants, workmen or contractors. " It also says "Except in case of emergency or unless it is impracticable to do so, the landlord shall give the tenant at least one (1) day's notice of his intent to enter and may enter only at reasonable times. "

So, doesn't this cover this problem of us showing the house??? I'm giving them more then 24 hr notice of showing the house and already re-arranged the schedule for their "company" last night. I have been fair with them, but she is unreasonable.

Also, the The Oklahoma Landlord and Tenant Acts states "the landlord shall return the balance of the security deposit without interest to the tenant within thirty (30) days after the termination of tenancy, delivery of possession and written demand by the tenant. "

We are not required to return deposits with interest.

The tenants are obligated to the lease UNTIL I sign a new contract with someone else because they are breaking the lease. So it is in their best interest to allow us to show the house and I have conveyed that to them. Are you still advising that I wait?

I don't know if these people are pro's or crazy, but I now realize that I believe the woman lied about her name & many other things before they moved in. I think she used her "husband's" name (I don't believe they are married) and it is not her name. So, she may have been hiding some history.

I do have a great application that is like a mortgage application - everything is on it. We just failed in checking everything we could. Live & learn.

21boat, I will check out your checklist on pre-documentation. Any more thoughts?

Also, my husband & I do intend to have the appliance repair man back out between this tenant & next to verify everything is in working order. We will take down the fan & replace with a light so there is no more issue about that. My husband also wants to have an HVAC man come out & service the units AND verify that everything is in good working order (since the tenant claims they are without heat). So, we are planning a few things of pre-documentation already but hopefully will have everything in order for the next tenant. I also intend to re-work out lease agreement to make sure this is not a problem next time.

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Originally Posted by Orange2008

As for showing the home, our lease states "upon the stated 30 day notice by tenant to vacate the property, that the tenant must allo.....

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Hello again, O:

I didn't say you don't have the RIGHT to show it.. I said they're not going to HELP you rent it.

I PROMISE you, IF they let you AND your prospective tenant in, the house will be a MESS, and they will badmouth you to your prospect NO END.

THAT'S what I meant.

You don't need to explain landlord/tenant law to me. I think it's a foregone conclusion that you'll wind up in court with these people.

excon

And praise the Lord - the tenant emailed me the same day she tried to file assault charges on me stating that I "became aggressive by sticking your finger at my nose and started to yell and scream shut up"

So, I would say she's crazy, not a pro because I was able to forward this & other rants to the detective to show I didn't touch her face which was the claim she made to police. I did tell her to shut up and I did point my finger at her while she was yelling and pointing her finger back. I have learned a valuable lesson because I didn't realize she was baiting me to "lose it".

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Originally Posted by 21boat

unless you had in the lease stating that the property can be shown after a 30 day notice is given in writing on said property you have to wait until she surrenders it over at the end of that 30 day notice. Legally it is her property and a Landlord can be considered trespassing if not given permission to enter said property.

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I disagree with that. Most state laws (and obvious OK laws as shown by the OP) allow a landlord to show the property when the lease is terminating. Standard leases also include that provision.

It sounds like you are in the right. But you will have to go to court to enforce those rights. If you can prove what you have said, you will win in court.

I do suggest that you hire an independent to do a walk through before they turn over the keys. And that you have that person checkout the complaints she has made.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, O:

I didn't say you don't have the RIGHT to show it.. I said they're not gonna HELP you rent it.

I PROMISE you, IF they let you AND your prospective tenant in, the house will be a MESS, and they will badmouth you to your prospect NO END.

THAT'S what I meant.

You don't need to explain landlord/tenant law to me. I think it's a foregone conclusion that you'll wind up in court with these people.

excon

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You are right & I know that. And I do fear they will be at the door keeping us from entering. And if we try to come in anyway, they will likely be saying all kinds of hateful stuff to the prospective tenant.

My problem is that my husband and I rented the house in the first place because we were having financial trouble. We were behind on our mortgage & were fearing foreclosure. We worked out a deal with our bank to get us back on track & rented the house. We cannot afford our rent payment & mortgage payment (yes, we are renters too but our landlord/tenant relationship here is great). So, we are somewhat backed into a corner with these people. We need to have someone in the house asap after these people leave. I also need time to do the appropriate background checks, etc. so that we find the right people for the house. They should be out by the 21st of Feb. but I hate to wait until then to start showing it.

I also have 2 appointments set up for tomorrow and Saturday. I was hoping to say as nicely as possible that we have had trouble with our tenant and we want a peaceful ending but they may not allow it. And to let the house speak for itself (and it will because everything is custom designed). And my husband has a digital recording device he was going to wear so if they start something or call police, we have proof of what they are doing. I was going to take the emails sent to them (and her replies) with us so if the tenants try to lie and say we gave no notice, I would have the information for police on hand.

I know it is a risk to show the house when they are there. But, if either of these people seeing it don't take it, I can always still show it when the renters are gone AND I may also have provided more documentation about their antics in the process. Don't you think??

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

But you will have to go to court to enforce those rights. If you can prove what you have said, you will win in court.

I do suggest that you hire an independent to do a walk thru before they turn over the keys. And that you have that person checkout the complaints she has made.

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I spoke with an attorney who said they would be gone before an injuction could be enforced so it would be pointless.

Hiring an independent is a good idea. I already have someone in mind! Thanks for that advice too.

Helo again, O:

I don't see anywhere that YOU are evicting them. I see that you're HOPING they'll be gone by X date, but you, apparently, have NOTHING to ENFORCE their departure.. I would NOT leave MY house to their GOOD WILL.

Look. If you can rent it sooner and recoup your losses, go for it... But, speaking as a tenant, the first hint of trouble between a tenant and his landlord would be enough to cause me to look elsewhere. Plus, you're not going to be able to give your new tenant a solid move in date. Again, I promise you that you're going to have damage to repair after they're gone.

I'm on your side. I just want you to be realistic.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Helo again, O:

I don't see anywhere that YOU are evicting them. I see that you're HOPING they'll be gone by X date, but you, apparently, have NOTHING to ENFORCE their departure.. I would NOT leave MY house to their GOOD WILL.

Look. If you can rent it sooner and recoup your losses, go for it... But, speaking as a tenant, the first hint of trouble between a tenant and his landlord would be enough to cause me to look elsewhere. Plus, you're not going to be able to give your new tenant a solid move in date. Again, I promise you that you're going to have damage to repair after they're gone.

I'm on your side. I just want you to be realistic.

excon

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Good point! What is your solution then?

They gave a 30 day notice dated Jan 21 at the top and hand written date of Jan 22 next to their signatures. I sent an email with the prorated rent for both dates (Feb. 20 or 21) and gave them the option to be out either day and told them that the amount of the rent would let me know when they are leaving.

Now, if they try to use their security deposit AS rent (she already ask for it within HER 30 day notice and I said not possible & stated the law) or if they do not pay one of the 2 amounts, I will start eviction proceedings after the 5th (and will warn them that I will do so as it is in the lease), so at least I know by the time they should be out, I would also have an eviction.

If they pay the pro-rated rent and don't leave (I really hadn't thought of that) and I sign another lease with another tenant, their lease ends on the start of the new lease (due to their notice & the law), so would it mean I would THEN have to start eviction and the new tenant couldn't move in??

Also, I do have pictures of the house before they moved in (when we lived there) so if there is damage, I at least have evidence of the difference before they moved in. Yes, you are probably right. I certainly hope they have the good sense just to move on, but I doubt it.

Hmmm... I don't like that at all.

Excon,

I did wonder why they gave their notice at that time because it puts them in a situation of finding a place to move in at the end of February. They would have to find something vacant then. Otherwise, I would think something wouldn't be available until the first of March. So, I will consider what you have said.

Hello again, O:

I can't believe you saw Pacific Palisades, and yet you rent WITHOUT knowing the rules... You wouldn't play poker without knowing the rules would you? I don't know. Maybe you would.

I don't know WHEN the lease starts. It SHOULD start on the first and end the last day of the month. I'll bet it DOES. Therefore, there ISN'T any pro-rated rent. Their 30 day notice becomes effective at the beginning of the new rental period - NOT the day THEY wrote it or dated it or submitted it..

I don't know the story, and I'm not really interested in it. WHATEVER they have to say, I can't believe a judge is going to buy it. THAT is where this cockamamie story ought to be presented. In order for THAT to happen, you need to EVICT them per your state law. You have AMPLE grounds.

While you're at it, sue them for the stuff they bought from you but didn't pay for. You can file it all in one suit.

Maybe they'll be out before the hearing happens, and maybe not. If not, then you've got some TEETH to use.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, O:

I can't believe you saw Pacific Palisades, and yet you rent WITHOUT knowing the rules... You wouldn't play poker without knowing the rules would you? I dunno. Maybe you would.

I don't know WHEN the lease starts. It SHOULD start on the first and end the last day of the month. I'll bet it DOES. Therefore, there ISN'T any pro-rated rent. Their 30 day notice becomes effective at the beginning of the new rental period - NOT the day THEY wrote it or dated it or submitted it..

I don't know the story, and I'm not really interested in it. WHATEVER they have to say, I can't believe a judge is going to buy it. THAT is where this cockamamie story ought to be presented. In order for THAT to happen, you need to EVICT them per your state law. You have AMPLE grounds.

While you're at it, sue them for the stuff they bought from you but didn't pay for. You can file it all in one suit.

Maybe they'll be out before the hearing happens, and maybe not. If not, then you've got some TEETH to use.

excon

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You are right and I've learned my lesson the hard way. I agree with you about the rent & notice but unless they state other intentions, I am hoping they will be gone by the 21st and will accept prorated rent for that time. Is that wrong?

What are my grounds for eviction? Please give me the grounds so I'm sure to go about this the right way.

As for what they didn't pay for, we removed all the items already except the home gym. And we think we have a potential buyer to get this on Friday.

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Originally Posted by Orange2008

I spoke with an attorney who said they would be gone before an injuction could be enforced so it would be pointless.

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No you misunderstand me. These people are responsible for the rent until you have a new tenant in place. But they are not going to hand over that money to you. You are going to have to sue them to get it. I'm not talking about an injunction to allow you to show but a suit to recover. You probably have a security deposit that may cover some of it, but not all. There is also, the distinct possibility that they will leave with extensive damage in spite. These are all things you need to prepare for.

If you do try to show the house while they are there, leave the prospective tenants in the car, until you have gotten inside. You don't want them being a party to whatever unpleasentness the renters display.

And your husband shouldn't conceal any recording device unless your state law allows it.

Hello again, O:

We didn't talk about rent either, but I can't believe people like this would pay their rent on time every month, and keep the place in proper order. I can't believe they didn't make changes contrary to the lease... I can't believe they've fulfilled EVERY little paragraph of your lease. I just don't believe it.

Look, think like a lawyer.. As a matter of fact, they're claiming that the house is "un-inhabitable". Ok, if you didn't make it that way, then THEY did.

They say you entered illegally. You say they refused entry. I don't know.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, O:

We didn't talk about rent either, but I can't believe people like this would pay their rent on time every month, and keep the place in proper order. I can't believe they didn't make changes contrary to the lease.... I can't believe they've fulfilled EVERY little paragraph of your lease. I just don't believe it.

Look, think like a lawyer.. As a matter of fact, they're claiming that the house is "un-inhabitable". Ok, if you didn't make it that way, then THEY did.

They say you entered illegally. You say they refused entry. I dunno.

excon

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Actually, they have paid on time & kept the house in order (that I could see). It was almost too clean - like no one really lived there (a little bare). But, they moved from a very small place to over double the square footage.

Our lease gives them a $50 discount if they pay the 1st, so they have. Sunday is the 1st and we will know what is going to happen then (if we are paid or not).

I will look into the lease and see where they have violated it. They are refusing entry to us - yes... AND I know she is operating a business out of the house (I did too) so I don't know if I want to go there!

I looked whether we can record them & found that 37 states which allow one party consent recording of oral communications which does include Oklahoma. So, my husband is going to have that recorder on him. We know it does a good job because a friend has used it preaching and was able to get a good recording of the message.

Their claim to the house being uninhabitable. I wish you could see the house. It's absolutely CRAZY talk. Custom built 5 years ago. Everything still sparkles like new! The just hurt themselves in my opinion. I'm thinking maybe their problem is financial (that is when she started complaining is when I asked when they were going to pay for items). Maybe they really couldn't afford it with the higher utilities and more gas for travel. I don't know.

But, I will be working on this. My mother wondered if they would just abandon the property & leave without paying rent. We drove by tonight & lights were on. IF that is their plan, then it would make sense that they would refuse entry because we would know what they are doing. We will be there tomorrow & Saturday for appointments.

Plus, if they are damaging things, we would see that too. Tomorrow will tell.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

No you misunderstand me. These people are responsible for the rent until you have a new tenant in place. But they are not going to hand over that money to you. You are going to have to sue them to get it. I'm not talking about an injunction to allow you to show but a suit to recover. You probably have a security deposit that may cover some of it, but not all. There is also, the distinct possibility that they will leave with extensive damage in spite. These are all things you need to prepare for.

If you do try to show the house while they are there, leave the prospective tenants in the car, until you have gotten inside. You don't want them being a party to whatever unpleasentness the renters display.

And your husband shouldn't conceal any recording device unless your state law allows it.

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Yes, the law allows Oklahoma to record with one party having knowledge. You are probably completely right. It's hard to fathom. I know you aren't supposed to rent something your heart is in, but my heart is there. Since I designed the house & worked very closely with the builder (a close friend & associate in the business), there is much of me in that house. So, I'm going to be a little heartbroken if I see something like that movie when they finally gain access.

Hmmm... are they going to change the locks before we get there? I will leave prospective tenants in the car before taking them to the door. I just don't know what is going to happen. I will update you as we have an appointment tomorrow at 6p and my husband intends to do a little work on the property in the afternoon before then (hauling some tree limbs off and replacing the fan with the previous light).

We thought about asking a friend of ours (former police officer) if he might come along as a witness (since I cannot get the police to come out - I tried). This way, if there are any false claims, he can tell them what really happened along with our recording. Did I mention I spoke with the detective assigned to the "assault" case and told him we were worried about trying to show the house & the detective finished my sentence saying out of fear they will call and make another claim. He's on to them.

I will update the situation tomorrow evening. Also, any final tips will be MUCH appreciated!!

AHHHH... I found one thing in the lease that I could help start the eviction process. I have emailed them twice with information about our times to show the house (last she said I would NOT show it during the week & only certain times on Saturday & Sunday) PLUS I emailed what the rent will be (prorated) without any response from the tenant so far.

In the lease it states "if the party of the first part after using all reasonable means to communicate with the tenant for any reason and is unable to get the party of the second part to respond, this shall be grounds for termination of the lease. Party of the first part may commence eviction proceedings"

Okay, we will see what happens tomorrow & Saturday and what they do on the 1st (paying their rent or not) and I will notify them again in email, hang a sign on the door of the house and have my husband call her husband at his work. If I cannot get any communication on a definite moving date and how we will get the keys/garage door opener, along with getting any rent, we will move forward. If they pay rent but avoid communication with us, I will still move forward as we need to coordinate their move out date & our availability date.

What do you think?