I am writing this on behalf of a friend who is at his wits end.
Firstly I am pulled in two directions , as I am a complete self confessed dog lover I kind of feel sorry for the dog rather than my friend !
Let me explain the problem -
My friend is dad to four young children and his wife is bed ridden due to health.
He has 3 cats and 2 Bull Mastiff Puppies aged approx 10 months old ( brother and sister)
From seeing the dogs a few weeks ago I comented on how small and thin they were ( I have had a Bull Mastiff myselfe in the past) but lost him due to health !
The male seems to have filled out and grown but the Smudge is small thin and to be honest looks like she has never been given a decent meal in her life!
My friend now has neighbours threatening to report him for cruelty as the looks that ill ( I can not comment as have not seen her for a long time and I can not just visit as he does not allow you inside his house.
He is struggling and clearly has depression - but as far as I am aware the dogs are treat and fed fine it is as said just the .
He has asked me to even take her to fatten her up - he has taken her to the vet to rule out medical - he has changed dog foods - feeding both dogs in separate rooms.
Any Advise ?

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Originally Posted by mum2five

I am writing this on behalf of a friend who is at his wits end.
Firstly I am pulled in two directions , as I am a complete self confessed dog lover I kind of feel sorry for the dog rather than my friend !
Let me explain the problem -
My friend is dad to four young children and his wife is bed ridden due to health.
He has 3 cats and 2 Bull Mastiff Puppies aged approx 10 months old ( brother and sister)
From seeing the dogs a few weeks ago I comented on how small and thin they were ( I have had a Bull Mastiff myselfe in the past) but lost him due to health !
The male seems to have filled out and grown but the Smudge is small thin and to be honest looks like she has never been given a decent meal in her life!
My friend now has neighbours threatening to report him for cruelty as the looks that ill ( I can not comment as have not seen her for a long time and I can not just visit as he does not allow you inside his house.
He is struggling and clearly has depression - but as far as I am aware the dogs are treat and fed fine it is as said just the .
He has asked me to even take her to fatten her up - he has taken her to the vet to rule out medical - he has changed dog foods - feeding both dogs in seperate rooms.
Any Advise ?

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I don't understand people - the neighbor - who threaten to report someone for cruelty. Talk to the animal owner. That I can see. But threaten? Makes everybody defensive and accomplishes nothing.

At any rate - some dogs are just thinner than others. If the Vet has ruled out any other problems, the dogs have sufficient food available and the time and place to eat, maybe the answer is to change back to the original dog food.

But the greater kindness might be for you to take one of the dogs and see what you can figure out.

I would talk to the neighbor, show him the vet bills and let him know everything is being tried

You see as much as my friend said he has taken her to the vets I am not in a position to say he actually bothered. My first thought was that as he is struggling with his ill wife the 4 kids - the 3 cats and the 2 dogs - he spends all his time sat on a computer playing some war craft game at least 12 hours per day!
I am not saying he is being cruel to his pets just am concerned for both him and the dog but as said one dog seems to be just fine , it is just the .

It sounds like he's going through way too much and dealing with more than he can handle. Ten month old puppies need a lot of care and attention, he doesn't seem able to give them that.

My first thought (because you said the male is gaining weight) is that the male is eating his food and the females. Your friend probably thinks that she's getting enough food, because he feeds her, but doesn't see that the male is gobbling up both bowls. I see this all the time when you have more than one dog.

Are you in a position to take the dogs for a while, until your friend gets back on his feet?

One would think that if it was financial problems interfering with the dogs proper nutrition and vet care, he wouldn't be able to play a game that costs $15 a month. While I enjoy games, I would pawn off my computer before letting my dogs suffer if I had to. If he is unable to both financially and time wise manage his family, the dogs and world of warcraft then he needs to lose the game or find better homes for his dogs. He may or may not be neglecting her, but if he isn't trying everything in his power to help her then he might as well be. If you are in the position to take her, then monitor her eating carefully, and her weight. If she packs on the pounds quickly your friend may not have been honest with you, but if she does not gain weight then its time she saw a new vet.

I know he is under great stress - his poor hygein shows this but there is no issie with regards to his children they are well looked after so have no problems there I often have his kids for tea after school to give him a hand but he has really let himself go.
As for his war craft game he is totally addicted he plays it every waking hour!
I suggested that he feeds the dogs separate in dif rooms as in the suggestion above if the male was eating it all and he told me he does this.
I am not too sure whether aia could manage taking on a 10 month old Bull Mastiff as I have 4 children the youngest being 7 months and our 5th baby being in due in 16 weeks.
I have no idea how to approach his down hill climb, the dogs I know sleep on his wife bed and spend all the day there too.I am not aware that he walks them

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Originally Posted by mum2five

I know he is under great stress - his poor hygein shows this but there is no issie with regards to his children they are well looked after so have no problems there I often have his kids for tea after school to give him a hand but he has really let himself go.
As for his war craft game he is totally addicted he plays it every waking hour!
I suggested that he feeds the dogs seperate in dif rooms as in the suggestion above if the male was eating it all and he told me he does this.
I am not too sure whether aia could manage taking on a 10 month old Bull Mastiff as I have 4 children the youngest being 7 months and our 5th baby being in due in 16 weeks.
I have no idea how to approach his down hill climb, the dogs I know sleep on his wife bed and spend all the day there too.I am not aware that he walks them

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Hmm - yes, this is a problem. Obviously if someone takes the dog(s) it will have a terrible effect on his wife and you sure have your hands full.

I'm sure he's depressed and the game gets his mind off his problems. Hopefully it's a stage he's passing through.

Are his kids old enough to take some responsibility? You could explain to them that you are concerned, that the dogs should eat in separate rooms to make sure they are both getting enough food, that type of thing - ?

My dogs run all day because I'm on a fenced acre but I have friends who basically let their dogs in and out and I don't see that the dogs are any worse for it and some of them are, in fact, big dogs.

As for finance let's just say neither work but earn more than me and hubby who do work full time !
As for his children they are aged 15 / twins who are 9 and the youngest is 6 but has a mental age of 3/4 years.
He does has his hands full but in the 2 years I have known him things have changed very badly.His wife suffers an illness but allows her to get out of bed only one day per week (pay day) . Other than sitting in the house they do nothing together.He sits in the front room on his comp while she sits on hers in the bedroom barking orders and demands via msn to him.
I have tried to talk to him but just do not know what to say.Maybe I should start a new thread for this part.
As for the dogs - I have only seen them once and I commented when they were 5 month old they were both very thin and small.
He has been the one to tell me the dog is fine it's the female who will not put on weight, I have suggested many dif things.
Am I wrong in thinking this could be cruelty.They get fed but not walked other than being let out in the garden.They live laid on his mrs bed. I never hear the children talk about the dogs so gather they do not have much contact with them?

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Originally Posted by mum2five

As for finance let's just say neither work but earn more than me and hubby who do work full time !
As for his children they are aged 15 / twins who are 9 and the youngest is 6 but has a mental age of 3/4 years.
He does has his hands full but in the 2 years I have known him things have changed very badly.His wife suffers an illness but allows her to get out of bed only one day per week (pay day) . Other than sitting in the house they do nothing together.He sits in the front room on his comp while she sits on hers in the bedroom barking orders and demands via msn to him.
I have tried to talk to him but just do not know what to say.Maybe I should start a new thread for this part.
As for the dogs - I have only seen them once and I commented when they were 5 month old they were both very thin and small.
He has been the one to tell me the dog is fine it's the female who will not put on weight, I have suggested many dif things.
Am I wrong in thinking this could be cruelty.They get fed but not walked other than being let out in the garden.They live laid on his mrs bed. I never hear the children talk about the dogs so gather they do not have much contact with them?

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What happens if you report you concerns to animal control? In my area they keep it to themselves, don't release the names of the people who reported it.

Otherwise - I love the part where she can only get up on payday. :)

Maybe a call to the authorities is the only option you have.

To be honest if he was not a friend I would have phoned someone but because he is a friend and I feel sorry for him I do want to help but other than offering to take the dog even for a few weeks I am not sure what I can do !

Let me say - dogs fill out at different rates, girls can be slimmer than boys and should be well into their third year for a large breed. If you're talking emaciation where ALL her ribs are clearly showing, she's got indents where she's lost muscle on her head and she's dehydrated that's cruel, but having a slim dog isn't a bad thing. Did you ask if the dog is spayed? What sort of food are they getting?

Ribs are showing - not spayed and complete dry food (cheap sort)

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Originally Posted by beebeecee

Let me say - dogs fill out at different rates, girls can be slimmer than boys and should be well into their third year for a large breed. If you're talking emaciation where ALL her ribs are clearly showing, she's got indents where she's lost muscle on her head and she's dehydrated that's cruel, but having a slim dog isn't a bad thing. Did you ask if the dog is spayed? What sort of food are they getting?

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Is there a connection between spaying and weight?

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Originally Posted by mum2five

To be honest if he was not a friend I would have phoned someone but because he is a friend and I feel sorry for him I do want to help but other than offering to take the dog even for a few weeks I am not sure what I can do !

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I think you have to weigh it out and be clear about what you are seeing.

Are the dogs in danger, suffering, being abused?

Are the dogs just thin, don't get enough exercise, need more attention but aren't in danger?

Just need more attention would be my personal thoughts but with others who see them in the back yard they think dif if threatening to phone authorities - just want to help him

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Originally Posted by mum2five

To be honest if he was not a friend I would have phoned someone but because he is a friend and I feel sorry for him I do want to help but other than offering to take the dog even for a few weeks I am not sure what I can do !

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The bold part is what sticks out for me. If this man was a stranger you would have already reported him, that's your answer right there, you should report him for the good of the dogs.

This slump he's in could last for years, he has to be willing to get help for himself, and until that happens the dogs will continue to suffer.

Will it hurt him when they take the dogs away? Maybe, but it might also be a relief to have 2 less things to worry about right now.

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Is there a connection between spaying and weight?

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Lol, not that I'm aware of medically, but many people do believe that spayed/neutered dogs get fat, so they feed more, or subconsciously encouage the dog to get fat, because 'it's OK, they're spayed'... and expect it. The only real connection I can think of is that while in heat the male dog could be seriously interested, I've been around male dogs who were so concerned over a female in heat two houses over they did nothing but pace and whine and wouldn't eat anything for days, and to some extent the hormones in a female can do some of the same things but that would be a small drop in wieght suddenly that would go away when the female went out of season - not generally poor body condition. I was asking mostly to learn about what level of care these dogs are given, if there is a male and female dog - both intact, both approaching adulthood they WILL breed, and will the owner care that the female is pregnant? Pregnant dogs require a lot of care, as do puppies. Dogs can come into heat as soon as 6-7 months, but for larger dogs it's usually around a year, so that factors into their situation, soon more dogs could be coming into an already poor situation.

It sounds to me like emaciation, and for that the police need to be called. People don't let their dogs look like concentration camp victims its not something you can just 'not realise' although, if the dogs go outside they could have a serious worm infestation and possibly heartworm - are they coughing or throwing up? Worms in the stool?

EDIT: You said the female has been to the vet, why didn't the vet advise on what to do? He or she should be able to give much MUCH better advice because they can actually see the dog. I guess to fatten her up give her several small meals throughout the day rather than one or two big ones, and try adding 85% lean hamburger, boiled with the fat drained off, in small amounts at first don't want her to get sick. Cottage cheese and yogurt are good as well. At 10 months both dogs should be on a high quality puppy food, for a large breed they should eat puppy food until they're around a year and a half actually.