I have read many other posts since I've started posting here about peeing. I've seen the things people have put to try to help out. My question today is I have an 11 year old rat terrier. He will pee on everything just for spite. I don't believe people when they say dogs cannot feel the same emotions humans do that's a bunch of bull, they haven't met my dogs. If he doesn't get a bite of your food, if he is left here alone, if you yell at him, if he's bored just anything he might find to give him a chance to pee he'll do it. We've tried everything from sprays, h2o2, bleach hiding it, scrubbing it, making him go outside more often, yelling, etc. He's done it for years so it's not a urinary infection. He is honestly a spiteful devil. It's not that he's bored. You can walk him for hours and he'll come home and when something comes up where he feels like he needs to pee on something he'll do it. I thought that it was because he's still intact that could be a major reason why he feels to pee everywhere, but we have a old poodle that is neutered and have caught him peeing in the house also. He doesn't do it nearly as much as Roscoe the rat terrier. The only thing that works is crating him, but I can't keep him in a crate 24/7. I'm fixing to move into a house which will most likely be carpeted, the house now is wood floor so it hasn't been too bad (except the warping of the wood and the occasional carpet pissing). I just keep saying that if he pees in the new house he'll have to be an outside dog but I know that won't work he's too old w/ health problems to be outside. Any suggesstions of any kind that I can try that people HAVE TRIED AND HAD WORK. I would appreciate it. I know about Cesar Millan also fredg, I've watched him from his first show. Plus I don't live in Cali for him to help me. :p Although I really wish he could set this little mean TERROR straight!!

Yes any help would be appreciated, cause I'm going to be her roommate. :p

My only thought on this subject and I know dogs that can be spiteful and arrogant... you could always try putting him in a diaper. Maybe he won't like smelling, or wetting himself all the time. Take it off only when he goes outside. I am sure that the other dog will "laugh" at him. It is not a tried and true theory but hey it might work.

Hi, jen,
Sorry to hear about all this. I don't have any good answers, except to mention you did not say what your Vet has said about all this peeing.
Have you seen one about it?
There are medications to try controlling it, such as Premarin.
Maybe your Vet has some good suggestions to try.
Dogs, according to some, have the "thinking" ability of a 3 or 4 yr old. But, I do know, as you, that dogs are much smarter than most give them credit for. They know when things are wrong, and at the same time, they also know when they themselves are doing wrong! I agree with you... it's out of spite.
Best of luck.

I am one big animal (all animals but especially dogs and cats) fan and believe they have a wide range of emotions and greatly overlooked intelligence. But, I don't think any dog (and I have been around some really smart ones) has the means to be spiteful unless you've somehow managed to aid and abet him into it. I truly believe, just as I would with a child, that it takes two to tango in this game. I had a Chinese Shar Pei who would snub you if you insulted him, and it would take a good three days for him to regain his face, but he did regain it. If you aren't open to looking at everything, including what you do, then I don't see how it will be solved, frankly. So I wonder what are you willing to do, what are you willing to change?

Good idea Myth, BUT the only problem I have w/ that is, he is very very very mean. There is no way that I would even be able to come near him w/ that type of thing. We have to take him to the vet for a nail trim. Basically he will growl when he is pet, if HE doesn't want to be pet. I have actually thought of something like that. I heard of this one thing its really just elastic that wraps around the waist, that works in the same way of him not wanting to pee on himself, but could never find anything like that. Would probably be in the same situation.

I work at a vet clinic, and I brought up today to the DVM if he could be put on Prozac. He said it is a possibility. So I was see what happens with that.

I do think a lot of it might be the way he was raised. He was my mom's dog. He got away with lots and lots of things. She spoiled him. He has learned that he gets his way with aggression, and doing it for so many years, that has just been the routine with him.

It's hard to deal with. I love him to death. We all have been through a lot together. I don't know what to do with him anymore. The older he gets the meaner he is. It's strange to have my loving pit bulls that know wrong from right will do anything for some love, never even think about being aggressive towards me, and then go to Roscoe and he's a complete jerk. The problem is he doesn't respect us. He thinks he is the pack leader of the house. The other dogs know who is number one, but he just refuses to.

I'm just looking for any tips, anything someone has tried that they had success with. I've tried everything. I have given up on him even though I AM still willing to try anything.

I do second guess if even Cesar Millan could rehabilitate this one! Lol!

I don't get it, if a dog doesn't have the means to be spiteful, how could it have the means to be insulted?







~bhooooooooooooooooooooooooooot

I think Val made some very good remarks. I don't think she meant so much that they don't possess the capacity for spite -- more that, like children, it's not a habitual inclination of theirs. In a sense you have to water the seeds, and you reap what you sow.
I have worked a great deal of jobs in my life, among these: night/overnight manager of a kennel, day care volunteer, assistant counselor at a special needs camp, and volunteering teaching children's swim classes as a lifeguard. I know kids, and I like to think I know dogs fairly good as well. The nice thing about both, is neither naturally discriminates; they generally like most people, and when they don't it's often very much intuitive. Their reasons are often well founded.
I've never met a "bad" kid, and rarely have I met a dog I could not tolerate. As a day care worker, I often became the focal point of the intense rage of known abused children, who 90% percent of the time adored me, simply because they were confident in my ability not to react angrily in return; something they could not express with their parents. Dogs can take the polar opposite approach, often attempting to take control out of fear. In all the time I worked in the kennel, despite handling many vicious dogs that no one else would, I was only bitten once.
Simply put, with kids and dogs, you always get far more respect than you give, even if they sometimes show it in funny ways. Attempt somehow to dominate them and you don't remain in control for long. Yesterday's victim often inevitably becomes tomorrow's monster.

Forgive me for not making the point more clear and thank you Thomas for some good illumination there too. Like Thomas, I think dogs naturally want to please, and it takes people making repeated mistakes to train them not to. I see you have a very difficult problem in that you virtually need to teach an old dog new tricks. It can be done, but you'll need to be really up on dog training tactics to do it -- a huge investment in time and learning on your part. Most dogs are really an accurate reflection of their owners and what your mom did in her treatment of this dog is no different.

For any human to re-establish themselves as "alpha dog" around him is going to take some doing but that is first and foremost, if anything successful is to follow. I would also caution you that dogs left as alpha over time frequently become dangerous, unbeknownst to their loving caretakers. Dog bites happen predominantly this way. The dog grows more and more "wild" as alpha dog, and the owner can't imagine being bitten until the day the dog does what wild alpha dogs do -- its usually a bad combination. I think you are beginning to see some of that effect already and I would caution you about keeping this dog if you aren't prepared to retrain or closely supervise.

I hope this more practical and if there are more questions about anything I said, I would be happy to answer them here.

I know that I have had some very aggressive dogs that I have "inherited" from friends who were big softys. I have done a bit of studying wolf behavior and I have used that to make my dogs understand that I am the alpha. They will test you just to make sure you haven't lost that status, but just be assertive and that stops quick. I have bitten my dogs ears *just enough to where they feel it* I have put them on their backs and gotten nose to nose with them in a growling match. I have not yet had to pee on them * I know sounds gross* but making them where your scent around all the time is one heck of a reminder of who is the boss. Back in Oregon we would find wolf hybreds all the time. They are very aggressive and these were just about the only ways, depending on the nature of the dog, to earn that respect and trust with them. Once the alpha was established we typically had no problem with them. Again it depended on the animal and it's instincts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Myth

I have used that to make my dogs understand that I am the alpha. I have put them on their backs and gotten nose to nose with them in a growling match.

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This is actually the first thing I was going to suggest but not before I was certain she understood how to read a dog well enough in general that should he suddenly decide to fight back, how to protect herself from being bitten - especially in the face. There is no telling how easily an old dog with this kind of history will accept the submissive role. So if this is to be attempted, wear tough clothing (like denim), oven mitts if you can manage to still handle him well, and do this carefully, first onto his back on the floor, then your hand on his throat, then you growl, all keeping a big eye out for any sudden move and your face nowhere near his mouth.

I probably have more knowledge about dogs than most people on here. Not only with medical but psychological and behavioral. I am a vet tech, I trained to be a show dog judge, I've worked aside many trainers, had a job where all I did was sit and observe dogs behavior, read many many books on behavior and training, and own many dogs. I'm not saying in any kind of way that I'm a know it all because I don't. I do know all about psychologically controlling a dog and becoming the alpha. I've tried it with Roscoe for soooooo long. It never works. . Although there are many reasons of why they don't that I will not get into. Maybe I'm doing it wrong or maybe he has too many screws loose. That is all beside the point, the question that I originally posted was getting tips, solutions, hints, tricks that people have tried and had work with stopping a dog from peeing everywhere. I appreciate everyone's comments and respect everyone's opinion. I understand that it could just go beyond a peeing problem and it totally be a behavior issue. All I'm asking for is if anyone has had any luck with their dog that at one point peed in the house and now they don't. OR if they have tried something themselves with their dog to control behavior feel free, I'm not here to bash. Myth thanks for your comments. Yours were good. I'm just saying I've tried everything in the book plus things I thought of myself w/ this little one. So I thought well starting at one thing in particular instead of a whole could mean something. Sorry for the scattered post, I'm tired from work.

I have been wondering from the beginning if I am seeing more of a dog owner problem than a dog problem. I was carefully, politely and diplomatically addressing that first since, if that is the case, it is a big factor in the problem. I meant no offense to anyone. Peeing is a scent thing and dogs are all about scent as their primary means of "seeing" the world. It's a domination thing, its territory marking, its all very basic biology to an alpha dog which is why any male dog struggles to land his urine stream as high on the pole as possible (it implies to any territorial encroachers the higher the mark, the bigger the dog). I take notice of your attempt to be "alpha" here with us in a way that says you either aren't thinking clearly or you yourself don't understand alpha as a concept very well--"I probably have more knowledge about dogs than most people on here". I am not going to respond to the invitation to a "pissing contest" of our own by defending how much I know. I am sorry it came to this. Without understanding the whole problem, some result technique is not likely to work and I could see how frustrated you already were. To set the record straight, I was not adovcating giving the dog to a shelter at any time. Either way, please forgive me for apparently offending you while attempting to help you in the way I thought would guarantee success. Good luck.

Some excellent points made in the last post.
I do think it is possible to be commanding or in-charge, without being domineering or overwhelming. This is always a better approach to take with people obviously, but I do feel it works relatively well with dogs too. Be constant and consistent in your approach, yet fluid and adaptable -- but don't necessarily try to always strong-arm them. Many dogs can resent this as much as people do.
I had one particularly nasty dog at the kennel, who you could let out, he'd do his thing, re-enter the cage, but then wouldn't allow you to shut his door. He became extremely menacing whenever I tried. My solution was to simply, quietly show I was not intimated. As with children, when he eventually learned he wouldn't get the kind of rise, fearful or angry reaction he wanted, he inevitably lost interest, even if only for a moment.
I would simply place a stool very close to the cage, wrap my shirt around my hand, and sit there for many minutes with an exaggeratedly bored and disinterested look, making sure not to acknowledge him with eye contact. He would continue to rant for a considerable time, but being "mostly blow and no show", inevitably he would turn his back in reciprocal boredom. When he did, I would quickly slam the door and latch it. Of course he would then lunge at the door, snarling, spiitting and foaming, but he knew he'd been duped none the less. Though a dog can put up a ferocious fight -- in a battle of wits, most are comparatively unarmed.
The one time I physically attempted to pet him, I found him standing face to face with me, with his front paws on my shoulders. And I'm six feet tall! But because I retained my calm composure, not showing fear or dominance, I largely retained both face and face.
Be firm in your conviction, but respectful at the same time. I feel, as in everything, a balance needs to be drawn. Someone has to be in charge much of the time; but being alpha is often about working in the best interest of the entire pack, not simply about promoting your own genes or agenda alone.

Well now that was a worthless thread, good question but the answers turned into a criticism of how the person who posted it raises their dogs and personal stories of how someone stood face to face showing a dog who's boss, but no real answer to the question. Remember people there is a difference between being an animal lover and an animal expert

Well, technically I showed the dog respect with a fair degree of personal conviction. Essentially the point of my post. Had I indeed attempted to "show the dog who was boss", I'm sure I'd have a gaping hole in my mug right now. "Respect works both ways!" That has essentially been the point of both my posts in this thread. Often, you first have to give a little to get some in return. It wouldn't take a relationship expert to tell you that.

OK and as I stated it didn't help with the question at all, it was just another personal story that didn't help at all

Thread: what is 2 + 2
Response: well one time I was in english class in fifth grade... five paragraphs later... and then the recess bell rang and we had to go back into the classroom. I hope this helps you.

~are you a vet? No, but I stayed at a holiday inn express last night~

Well, you can't blame someone for trying can you? ;) This will be my last reply, as I don't wish to further clog up this thread with things that will essentially lend no aid.

I understand what you're saying THOMAS, all dogs are different, and need to be handled differently. What I'm trying to say is I've tried everything under the book and had nothing work on the rat terrier. It's not a matter of how I raise my dogs and that I'm doing it wrong lol... I own pit bulls, obedient submissive intelligent ones. Like I said in my previous post I thought about controlling one thing at a time and starting with the biggest problem which is the peeing, instead of "fixing" him as a whole. Honestly from birth this dog has had some screws loose, his mom tried to kill him, so that should tell you something right there. He is a devoted member of our family therefore yeah we've tried with him. I work with him all the time. Plus it's hard to explain 11 years in one thread :p. I really just wanted someone that had the same problem with their dog peeing in the house and had a solution that worked for them. I have a few things swimming in my head that I am going to try. I'll post in the future if they worked or not. I talked to the doctor today about possible medications also, since I've seen numerous animals come in the clinic with the same problem, tried numerous things then finally scripted it and it was solved. Hopefully something works out before the new house carpet is ruined, should invest in a carpet cleaner now! Lol j/k. Thanks everyone for their input.

I would suggest going back to the crate training you use when they are puppies. Retrain the dog. Sometimes something stirs them to go back to puppy habits. You need to let them know you are the alpha dog, not him. That is the most important!!