My husband has a 30 yr old son. Him and the mother divorced when he was 2 yrs old. Now, years later including interest and everything else Alameda county California is claiming he owes her around 80,000 dollars in child support. (No he's not a common deadbeat) Over the years before he turned 18 he was living some of the time with his mother and some of the time with my husband who. And during the time he was with her my husband always sent him/her money clothing, and other things to support him.when we first got married 2yrs ago he was even still sending him about $100 dollars a month to help with his 3 yr old daughter (my husbands grandaughter) after his wife left him alone with the baby. A few months ago he stopped working when they started taking 70% of his paycheck and sending it 2 his ex wife. As a result of this he can no longer afford to send money to his son and grandaughter who are struggling. This all started about 2 months ago. They even put a lien on our joint account and my personal account and started to come after things solely in my name which forced us 2 get a divorce to protect me. We are still together but this continues to put a strain on our life. And here's the real bombshell... we just did a home DNA test (not admissible in court) and discovered my husband is not even his biological father. He always had doubts but it never mattered to him because he loves his son very much. But because he was married to the mother and did not request testing within 6 months of birth, under California law he is still responsible for the child support and they refuse to grant him a court test. Now its getting serious because he received a demand for payment in full within 10 days yesterday threating to revoke his drivers license, seize assets(tho he has none everything is in my name) and possible jail time. We live in Florida but this case is in California. We can't afford a lawyer and we don't know what to do. Please help!!

You (your husband) really need a lawyer; why not contact the local chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union? Also, perhaps Fathers rights

Yes we do but again, we(I) can't afford it. We are barely making ends meet since he now can't even work because of this B.S.. And according to the latest notice, we have 8 days left to come up with 80,000 dollars. So we don't really have enough time to do what your suggesting. However, its good advice. Right now I would like to know how far this might go.When we received the DEMAND FOR PAYMENT IN 10 DAYS yesterday we called the franchise tax board and they said the only thing he could do to delay this would be to set up a hearing in California which is impossible we live in Florida. What can they do? They have threatened everything imaginable do you think they will really do all that? Will my husband go to jail or prison? Sorry to ramble but I'm freakin out.

Several problems, sending clothes and things is not chid support that is purey and only money to the court,
And if the mother had physcia and legal custody, chid support it paid, even if the chid is with the dad unless a change in the court order was done.

Also a 100 dollars a month most likely is not near enough unless he was only making 500 or 600 a month hissef.
Norma child support will be in the 15 to 20 percent of gross wages.

So yes he obvioiusy would have been considered a dead beat dad of some level for not paying near as much as the court would have ordered.

But the issue here is that they want the money now after? 12 years. There is some statue of limitation on how far back they can go.

He really really needs an attorney it is not a matter of not affording, he can not afford not to get one
Sitting in jail, losing drivers license are good reasons to get one

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Originally Posted by butterfly08_24

My husband has a 30 yr old son. Him and the mother divorced when he was 2 yrs old. Now, years later including interest and everything else Alameda county California is claiming he owes her around 80,000 dollars in child support. (No hes not a common deadbeat) Over the years before he turned 18 he was living some of the time with his mother and some of the time with my husband who. And during the time he was with her my husband always sent him/her money clothing, and other things to support him.when we first got married 2yrs ago he was even still sending him about $100 dollars a month to help with his 3 yr old daughter (my husbands grandaughter) after his wife left him alone with the baby. A few months ago he stopped working when they started taking 70% of his paycheck and sending it 2 his ex wife. As a result of this he can no longer afford to send money to his son and grandaughter who are struggling. This all started about 2 months ago. They even put a lien on our joint account and my personal account and started to come after things solely in my name which forced us 2 get a divorce to protect me. We are still together but this continues to put a strain on our life. And heres the real bombshell....we just did a home DNA test (not admissable in court) and discovered my husband is not even his biological father. He always had doubts but it never mattered to him because he loves his son very much. But because he was married to the mother and did not request testing within 6 months of birth, under california law he is still responsible for the child support and they refuse to grant him a court test. Now its getting serious because he recieved a demand for payment in full within 10 days yesterday threating to revoke his drivers license, seize assets(tho he has none everthing is in my name) and possible jail time. We live in florida but this case is in california. We can't afford a lawyer and we dont know what to do. Please help!!!!!

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A couple of questions - was the mother on public assistance and that's who is attempting to collect the money?

Was there EVER court-ordered support and, if so, did he pay it? (Handing over money when the child needs it or buying clothes and things like that are not considered paying child support.)

I don't quite understand what's happened here - you were not aware of this but everything was in your name and now you've divorced to keep your assets from being tapped? Your individual assets CAN'T be tapped for his debts.

I don't understand how 70% of his paycheck could be sent to his ex-wife (or the County or whoever is attempting to collect this). That percentage is against Florida law - unless you mean 70% of his NET paycheck and I would even question that. I'm sure you realize that quitting his job to avoid paying this - and I understand he worked and only collected 30% of his pay if your figures are correct - doesn't make him look responsible.

I don't see a way out without an Attorney - and, of course, now that you are divorced you have no legal standing here and only he can fight this. Perhaps on his "no income" status he qualifies for some type of legal aid.

Judy beat me to it with several questions raised by your account of the situation. By law garnishment of a paycheck is capped at 25% in most places. Assets SOLELY in your name should not be attachable, for debts solely in his name.

And I also suspect that its Alameda county trying to get reimbursed for public assistance because he was not paying court ordered support.

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Originally Posted by butterfly08_24

My husband has a 30 yr old son. Him and the mother divorced when he was 2 yrs old. Now, years later including interest and everything else Alameda county California is claiming he owes her around 80,000 dollars in child support. (No hes not a common deadbeat) Over the years before he turned 18 he was living some of the time with his mother and some of the time with my husband who. And during the time he was with her my husband always sent him/her money clothing, and other things to support him.when we first got married 2yrs ago he was even still sending him about $100 dollars a month to help with his 3 yr old daughter (my husbands grandaughter) after his wife left him alone with the baby. A few months ago he stopped working when they started taking 70% of his paycheck and sending it 2 his ex wife. As a result of this he can no longer afford to send money to his son and grandaughter who are struggling. This all started about 2 months ago. They even put a lien on our joint account and my personal account and started to come after things solely in my name which forced us 2 get a divorce to protect me. We are still together but this continues to put a strain on our life. And heres the real bombshell....we just did a home DNA test (not admissable in court) and discovered my husband is not even his biological father. He always had doubts but it never mattered to him because he loves his son very much. But because he was married to the mother and did not request testing within 6 months of birth, under california law he is still responsible for the child support and they refuse to grant him a court test. Now its getting serious because he recieved a demand for payment in full within 10 days yesterday threating to revoke his drivers license, seize assets(tho he has none everthing is in my name) and possible jail time. We live in florida but this case is in california. We can't afford a lawyer and we dont know what to do. Please help!!!!!

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First off there needs to be an original order for support. If he doesn't have it then they can provide it to him. By federal law they can take up to 60% gross if he is in arrears and when you break that down to net pay he's making almost nothing. Alameda county is one of the worst in this field of child support screw ups. And the nightmare continues because the State has taken over the child support system. Its one giant mess. Your husband needs to request a hearing on the arrears and get all of his docs in a row. The paperwork can speak for him. He can apply and appear " by telephonic means " ( to us normal people it means he appears by phone). The Alameda court system does have people there and that can be reached by phone to help with the forms he will need to contest the amounts. It would be best to get a lawyer because as of right now the interest rate is 10% on the whole arrears. He can even get forms online. The main thing he really needs to do is file and get a job so he can make payments. If he refuses and resides with you married or not they can start coming after you through him. Hes in a very serious situation. Also if he's not working he can call the law center in Oakland Calif and see if he can get some aid from them but they will look at tax returns from last year so if he was making above minimum wage expect to get turned away. The court clerk that helps with paperwork is called a court facilitator and you would contact their office.

Here is a great resource for paperwork and for winding your way through the court system.
California Courts: Self-Help Center: Families & Children: Child, Spousal, & Partner Support

Good Luck and keep us posted.

Thank you all for your response. To answer some of your questions no its not owed to welfare directly to her. Yes its arrears. And also keep in mind we recently discovered he is not the biological father but because they were married and he didn't get a dna back then they are refusing to drop it based on that. They claim he is not allowed a court admissible paternity test. And Califdad03 how can they come after me if we are no longer married? He has been using his mom address so it looks like he's not living here will that help? And he already requested telephonic hearing it was denied. They want him to be present in CA.

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Originally Posted by butterfly08_24

thank u all for your response. To answer some of ur questions no its not owed to welfare directly to her. Yes its arrears. And also keep in mind we recently discovered he is not the biological father but because they were married and he didnt get a dna back then they are refusing to drop it based on that. They claim he is not allowed a court admissable paternity test. And Califdad03 how can they come after me if we are no longer married? He has been using his mom adress so it looks like hes not living here will that help? And he already requested telephonic hearing it was denied. They want him to be present in CA.

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Here's my concern - you are asking for legal advice but admitting that the father "has been using his Mom's address so it looks like he's not living here - will that help."

The Courts are not stupid and see right through most fraud - which this is. They may very well be "coming after" you because you are part of the fraud by means of lying about his address, a transparent divorce, assets only in your name (possibly transferred to avoid this $80,000 debt).

From the other side of things I'm an investigator. You would be surprised by the number of these investigations I have been asked to do for out of State law firms (and often local firms) which are attempting to determine where people actually live so they can be charged with attempting to defraud the system.

He is some $80,000 in arrears and is lying to the Court to avoid paying - I don't see anyone here who can help you when fraud is involved.

I understand the situation. This is not your debt. The other side is that it's not a good idea to file false documents with the Court which brings you into the picture and could very well bring your every financial decision into question.

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Originally Posted by butterfly08_24

And also keep in mind we recently discovered he is not the biological father but because they were married and he didnt get a dna back then they are refusing to drop it based on that. They claim he is not allowed a court admissable paternity test. .

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Actually you should NOT be keeping that in mind. Its now a moot point. Most states have laws that establish legal paternity by default. There is usually a time frame in which such paternity can be challenged. Its now too late to challenge that so forget about that issue, its not going to have any bearing.

The main issue here is that there was a support order and he didn't pay and accumulated $80K in arrears. He has to make some arrangement to repay that.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Actually you should NOT be keeping that in mind. Its now a moot point. Most states have laws that establish legal paternity by default. There is usually a time frame in which such paternity can be challenged. Its now too late to challenge that so forget about that issue, its not going to have any bearing.

The main issue here is that there was a support order and he didn't pay and accumulated $80K in arrears. He has to make some arrangement to repay that.

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And, as Scott said, California - in particular - is VERY unforgiving when it comes to attempts to get paternity established when it is after a very short time frame.

You do have a bit of a mess on your hands (I've seen worse by the way).

It's too late to challenge paternity. First, such a challenge would be time-barred by statute; second the divorce would have established paternity as a matter of law.

If the child (now the 30 year old )were conceived during the marriage (you mentioned his parents divorced when he was 2) there would have been a 2 year window of opportunity to challenge paternity--this applies to children conceived during a marriage. But, that doesn't apply to any judgment of paternity entered on or before September 30, 1980, and yours is a case about that old. In other words, there might not have even been a 2 year rule that applied in this case.

The divorce would have established paternity as a matter of law so absent some sort of evidence of fraud or concealment (and even that is stretching things) there's really nothing that can be done to set aside the finding of paternity. I'd forget that as a issue altogether (absent some really weird facts).

You need to file a motion to determine arrearages and have it set for a hearing/trial. One possible defense is "constructive receipt"--that is the argument that during part of the time the child was the subject of the support order he lived with his dad (the support obligor). That can serve to credit or offset any support that accrued during that period (and the interest). I call this a Trainotti defense (by a case of that name).

In California a spouse's earnings are liable for the other spouse's child and spousal support obligation from another relationship (Family Code Section 910) but there can be offsetting and reimbursement issues in the event separate property was available to make those support payments but was not utilized (Family Code Section 915); but that's another issue.

You certainly would be well advised to obtain legal counsel to try to work things out with DCSS. Select a lawyer who is a certified specialist in family law.

Sounds like he s pretty much SOL so how do I protect myself? (Other than kicking him out)

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Originally Posted by butterfly08_24

Sounds like he s pretty much SOL so how do I protect myself? (Other than kicking him out)

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If you've already divorced your husband over this (on paper at least) you are protected from liability. I think it's tragic you felt you had to go to this extreme because it probably wasn't necessary, not in California at least. Here, there is a way around liability for the debts of your spouse (such as child and spousal support) incurred before marriage: You can establish a bank account in your name alone and keep your earnings segregated--it has to be an account to which your spouse has no access--and then you are protected. No need to get divorced (Family Code Section 911).

As far as tackling the child support issue, yeah DCSS can be a pain. I'd try to work with them. When they threaten to pull a drivers license often it's just an attention-getter. If your husband (former husband I suppose) says he needs a license to get to and from work to pay the child support they won't pull the license. But you have to let them know that. Again, try to work with them. Tell them also you want to show that the child (now 30 year old) was with the dad much of the time the support order ran and if the mom doesn't disagree with this they will probably adjust the support downward (tell them it's a Trainotti defense, they'll know what that means). Also, if you can find cancelled checks to show payments to the mom that weren't credited show those to DCSS. Of course, ask for a full accounting. Will the mom (former wife) agree to a compromise? That's another angle.

There's not a lot else to do. Of course, set it for a hearing if DCSS won't cooperate (some of the guys and ladies who work there are pretty nice people and aren't out to put the screws to anyone--I know some of them in our county and they're okay--just doing their jobs they'll tell you).

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Originally Posted by butterfly08_24

My husband has a 30 yr old son. Him and the mother divorced when he was 2 yrs old... But because he was married to the mother and did not request testing within 6 months of birth, under california law he is still responsible for the child support and they refuse to grant him a court test.

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For what it's worth, I don't believe DNA testing existed 28 or 30 years ago. What California law are your referencing? A History of DNA Testing - Flash Presentation

I would look for a state that allows DNA testing before a paternity deduction can be maintained, and move there. If the paternity issue follows him there, attack it in court as void, against public policy.

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Originally Posted by George_1950

For what it's worth, I don't believe DNA testing existed 28 or 30 years ago. What California law are your referencing? A History of DNA Testing - Flash Presentation

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The OP did not specify DNA testing when the child was born. Even though DNA testing is more recent, other forms of paternity tests have existed for a longer period.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

The OP did not specify DNA testing when the child was born. Even though DNA testing is more recent, other forms of paternity tests have existed for a longer period of time.

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The OP didn't specify how paternity was established; my hunch is that no paternity test was used in this case because 28 - 30 years ago, there were practically no scientific tests in use for two reasons: they didn't exist and the courts would not allow them into evidence. There may be at least one or more states that will allow the father a paternity test. If scientific testing can be used to set aside findings of guilt by juries for murder, rape, etc. then scientific testing should be used to set aside paternity in certain instances.

You need to do some more research Check this site:

Paternity and Parentage Testing - History Of Paternity Testing

I don't ordinarliy research points that are common knowledge; DNA tests did not exist 28 - 30 years ago. Tests that did exist might not be admissible in a court of law. Check: The use of genetic testing in paternity cases in the United States began in October 1979 in a small juvenile and domestic relations court in Virginia where a young black woman challenged Virginia's Code 20-61.1 as being unconstitutional. On April 26, 1985, the Virginia Supreme Court issued a landmark ruling on the admissibility of genetic testing and its use as evidence in Virginia courts in the case of Hankerson v. Moody, 229 Va 270 (1985). Paternity Determinations by Charles E. Corry, Ph.D.

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Originally Posted by butterfly08_24

They claim he is not allowed a court admissable paternity test.

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Hello b:

WITHOUT a lawyer, THEY can claim anything they want and you wouldn't know. Would the city LIE?? You bet!! From what I read, you can't afford NOT to have a lawyer.

excon