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-   -   Circuit Overload (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=297526)

  • Dec 31, 2008, 01:05 PM
    jay1pizza
    Circuit Overload
    Hi, I returned home from work last night to find a outlet about to set fire in my bedroom.I immediately turned off the circuit.The receptacle was glowing red behind the wall
    And the drywall was scorched just a little.There was an battery charger plugged in and I believe it may have had something to do with it.The outlet had melted badly and the wire
    Was burned a little,it also turned a light reddish color.When I returned power the other
    2 outlets in my room were inoperable and my refrigerator was also off.All other plugs
    Work fine in the home and nothing else was affected.It now puzzels me why the other outlets will not work and I assume the fridge is on this circuit.when this occurred no circuit
    Was thrown.I now am seriously thinking to redo with gfci and have fault protection?
    A new plug was installed but the outlets to the room/refridgerator are still nonfunction?
    There is also a microwave on this line and it still works? Do I need to trim the wire back to fresh wire before making contact although I scaled back enough as allowable because the wire is stiff and is far as I could go? I do not think it is the circuit switch primarily because the microwave turn off and back on when I flip the switch> will the whole thing have to be rewired here how do I troubleshoot? Thanks
  • Dec 31, 2008, 02:45 PM
    21boat

    If outlet got that hot what are the odds in the wall the wire is shot. Sounds like a pretty good chance do you have an electrical tester to see the correct juice factor for voltage drop? Truthfully for now I would shut down that whole circuit so a fire doesn't start back in the wall. Don't burn the house down or kill yourself while sleeping. I hope its off now. This is a dangerous post to resolve. Thee is a lot of liability here for answers you want. SO voltage tester is first. And even that not a guarantee that the wire in wall is not bare.
  • Dec 31, 2008, 02:48 PM
    ZoeMarie

    Can I ask how many amp outlet you have, what gauge wire is behind the wall, and how many amps this charger pulls?
  • Dec 31, 2008, 03:02 PM
    codyman144

    Hire a qualified Licensed Electrician now! You're talking about your house and much more… your life at stake. Have them tell you what is wrong and how they can fix it and then get it done. It will be well worth the money for the peace of mind.
  • Dec 31, 2008, 03:09 PM
    andrewc24301

    How old is the house?
    Are you aware of what gauge wire is being effected?
    And if so, what is the breaker size or fuse size in the panel?

    14 gauge wire should be on no more than a 15 amp fuse/breaker, 12 gauge should be on no more than a 20 amp fuse/breaker.

    I think that what has happened is a loose connection. This connection could be anywhere in the outlet. It could be where the outlet plugs in. When an outlet gets to a point where a plug fits real loose, it should be replaced.

    Loose connections create lots of heat. The loose connection could be back in the back of the outlet where the wire connects with the terminal. If a small electrical fire started (as it sounds like it did), then it's natural that much of the insulation would have burned back off the wire.

    Copper wire that has changed color due to heat should be replaced. Especially if it's stranded because it gets brittle and breaks easier.

    If this were my house, I'd rewire the whole circuit from the breaker panel to the last oulet, and make sure everything is good and tight.

    And I CERTAINLY would SHUT DOWN THE BREAKER on the effected circuit until the problem is remedied. By all rights, your house should have already burned down, but you were lucky and caught it in time.

    Don't tempt fate...
  • Dec 31, 2008, 03:14 PM
    andrewc24301
    By the way, if you find that this circuit is, for instance using 14 gauge wire on a 20 AMP BREAKER, then someone has gone in, not knowing what they are doing, and placed the wrong size breaker on the wrong sized wire.

    My house was like this when I purchased it. I've since rewired almost every circuit in 12 gauge, but what I did in the mean time, for safety, was every circuit that I knew had 14 gauge wire somewhere in it, I pulled out the 20 AMP breakers and installed a 15 AMP.

    A microwave, fridge, and God knows what else, seems like a lot to be on a circuit. A microwave pulls more current that most people realize. As high as 1400 watts or more for full size models. If the outlet that caught fire was at the beginning of the run, and it had the loose connection, then when ever your microwave was running, refigerator compressor, coffee pot, hot plate, what ever else you were using must have drawn a lot of current trough that connection. Under full load, I'm not even sure 20 amps would have covered it. Makes me wonder if someone didn't put a 30 amp breaker in the panel. Combine that with 14 gauge wire, and it spells trouble.

    But now I'm starting to speculate. Only you know what you have before you...

    I know in my house, we could not use any small heating kitchen appliance (George Foreman Grill for instance) along with the microwave because it would be too much for the circuit and trip the breaker. I finally had to put the microwave on it's own dedicated circuit. The fact that you never tripped the breaker concerns me.
  • Dec 31, 2008, 03:40 PM
    jay1pizza

    Come to think about it that outlet was loose.When I plug something in it would press back behind the plate but does that mean the wire to the terminals were also loose? I do not know the gauge of the wire but probably 14.It does have all 4 terminals connected but I do know if it is a middle run.. the house was built in the 50 or 60's.The breaker switch is 20amp.
  • Dec 31, 2008, 04:06 PM
    ZoeMarie

    If you have 14 gauge wire you should have a 15 amp breaker. This is most likely the reason your breaker didn't trip. You should definitely call an electrician to get you squared away.
  • Dec 31, 2008, 05:33 PM
    jay1pizza

    Thanks all... But I still do not comprehend why the other outlets are dead and the microwave is on this line and still has power.. I looked at the wiring and it is not toast that bad or brittle at all just scorch smudge and the sheathing is barely flamed although cooked a little.So maybe I walked in not too long after this may have gotten started.It is speculated that the wiring is not bad at all and may need to be stripped back a little more and that the circuit breaker needs to be replaced and that it is damage but still enough juice to power the microwave outlet,any thoughts? Thanks
  • Dec 31, 2008, 05:46 PM
    KISS

    Yea, you just learned the hard way why good electricians will avoid backstabbing. Outlets can be wired in a daisy chained fashion where the wires are pushed in bottom of the outlet and another set goes to the next outlet in the series. Any outlet before the failure, affects any outlet down stream.

    Now, lets wire it the right way:
    Run the wire to the box A and run it to another box B etc.
    In each of the boxes pig tail the white and black wires with a small wire. And wirenut these together. Now attach the outlet to the pigtail.

    Now a defect in the outlet won't cause a high resistance downstream. It will just affect one outlet.
  • Dec 31, 2008, 05:49 PM
    andrewc24301
    Given the age of your house, I'd venture to guess that the house was wired in 14 gauge two conductor (no ground) wire. Someone went in and just installed a modern breaker panel.

    What could have happened, if the wire is 14 gauge, and the breaker is 20, is that over time, the wire could have failed inside the insulation. Or there could be a junction box you are not aware of in the circuit. Or its possible that the outlets that are still working are just on a different breaker.

    In any event, this problem needs to be solved before you start 2009 off the wrong way (with a toasted house). No need to panic or anything, just give the problem prompt attention.

    You will need to trace the wires the best you can to see what is going where.

    Find the gauge wire you have may be difficult on older wiring where any wording as long since worn off. It's easy to tell the difference from 14 and 12 gauge wire, however it helps to compare them if you have never done so.

    I recommend going to a hardware store and holding up a piece of 14 gauge wire, then grab a piece of 12 gauge. Notice that the 12 gauge is thicker. Perhaps the store will even let you take an inch or two of each home with you so you can better see what you have. 14 gauge wire will be much more flexible that 12 gauge.

    All be it, this is a self help website, for DIY'ers, there is no shame in calling in a licenced electrician for help. If anything gets over your head, by all means.
    I learned how to soilder copper pipe after a very unsuccessful attempt to do so in my grandma's basement at the age of 18. Called in the plumber, followed him in the crawl space, watched him do it, ask questions... since then, never had an issue.

    But what you are really going to need to do, in the mean time is trace your wires, under the house, in the walls, however you can, see where everything goes.
  • Jan 1, 2009, 10:44 AM
    jay1pizza
    Thanks everyone... I located the default which was found at the kitchen outlet to the refrigerator.I inspected all receptacles and retightened any thing that did not seem
    Snug.I also checked the service panel for any giveaways such as burnt wiring.. etc
    Did not find anything rendered unusual but before I proceeded I shut off the main
    Power then I unscrewed the face panel.. It was when I checked the refrigerator
    Outlet that led to discovery of a loose ground and hot wire.. It seems that the house can and things do move around unknowingly.After tightening this
    Connection and returning power,all other outlets were restored.Turns out
    1 post was very accurate with wiring receptacles in a series and when this is done
    If one fails,so shall all - to the musketeer effect.I will monitor things and if
    Need be I will still bring in an electrician to have a look and give an final evaluation
    That everything is fine which seems to be the case now..

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