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What does this phrase mean to you?
***ADDED: Hope. What is "hope" to you? "Hope" sounds like maybe yes, maybe no. "I hope someone will give me a new cookie jar for Christmas. I've dropped enough hintsl" Or is "the hope of heaven" a definite thing? If so, why not say "the certainty of heaven"?
That God loves me and I have a firm hope of being with Him in eternity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Is a firm hope like firm Jello?Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
No. Its like the attitude of child to his parents. A child falls and cries and raises his arms expecting his parents will pick him up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
It is expectation.
Psalm 62:5
My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him.
It is a state of mind waiting for the manifestation of our presence in heaven.
Maggie 3
So it's not certain then. The parents may walk away and leave the child lying there.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
You made some additions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
One step above faith:Quote:
***ADDED: Hope. What is "hope" to you?
2 Corinthians 10:15
Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly,
It's a very strong "maybe yes"Quote:
"Hope" sounds like maybe yes, maybe no.
Hebrews 6:11
And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Because it isn't a certainty. It is a hope.Quote:
"I hope someone will give me a new cookie jar for Christmas. I've dropped enough hintsl" Or is "the hope of heaven" a definite thing? If so, why not say "the certainty of heaven"?
Heb 6 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Yes, after your first answer -- you inspired me.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
So it might not happen.Quote:
Because it isn't a certainty. It is a hope.
Right, I cannot right now know that I'll end up in heaven. But I have a hope, and one that is not ill-conceived, that I will. (In case you're wondering, an ill-conceived hope would be were I to, for instance, harbor the hope that by flapping my arms really fast I'll begin to fly.)
As the following passage shows, there are different kinds of hope.
Ro 4:18-25
18 Against all hope , Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be." 19 Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead — since he was about a hundred years old — and that Sarah's womb was also dead. 20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness." 23 The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness — for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
NIV
Because of their age, there was NO HOPE according to worldly standards or reason that Abraham would have a child by Sarah. But Abraham had the sure hope which is spiritual and comes from God.
This sureness also applies to spiritual understanding and faith as well as hope... as the following show. (the Greek word for sure is playrowforeea
Col 2:2
2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
KJV
1 Th 1:5
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance ; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
KJV
Heb 6:11
11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
KJV
Heb 10:22-23
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
KJV
Hmm?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
We are taught that we don't judge even ourselves. It is up to God.
Scripture must be taken in context. Just as scripture nowhere give any prohibition against judging (despite what we often here), there are things are we are to judge and those which we are not to judge.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
1 Cor 11:30-33
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
NKJV
1Cor.4.5? Is there some appeal to context that will show that it is now the time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Again, agreed.Quote:
Just as scripture nowhere give any prohibition against judging (despite what we often here), there are things are we are to judge and those which we are not to judge.
As I understand this topic, we are discussing the "hope" of salvation. Not judging whether we are prepared for the Sacraments.Quote:
1 Cor 11:30-33
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.
NKJV
The verse above is about preparing oneself for the Eucharist:
28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
The verse which I stand upon is this:
1 Corinthians 4:4For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. 5Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
Sincerely,
Did you read the context? It is referring to those judging Paul, not us judging ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
1 Cor 4:1-5
4:1 Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I know nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God.
NKJV
Pay close attention:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Here's why:Quote:
In fact, I do not even judge myself.
Therefore,Quote:
4 For I know nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.
,Quote:
5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes
Why judge nothing before Jesus arrives?
Because Jesus reads the hearts and everyone's praise will be from God.Quote:
who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God.
NKJV
Sincerely,
I don't see how the context mitigates this. Judge nothing until the Lord comes. Nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
I am and now you, please pay attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
Read the context of 1 Corinthians. To help focus your reading, why don't you tell me why, if no one is to judge, why then does Paul say...
1 Cor 2:14-16
15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
NKJV
1Cor2.14-16 and 1Cor.4.5 use different words for judge.
1Cor.2.14-16: The verb here is anakrino (hoti pneumatikos anakrinetai... ho de pneumatikos anakrinei).
1Cor.4.5: The verb here is krino (... me pro kairou ti krinete... ).
While anakrino does contain krino as its root, the two verbs have different meanings. Anakrino means to examine or search out. Krino (like its Latin counterpart, cerno) means to divide, separate, accuse, arraign, bring to trial, pass sentence upon, condemn.
So 1Cor.2.14-16 and 1Cor.4.5 are talking about different things, a fact which is readily apparent in Greek but which is lost in some English translations. It is quite evident that 1Cor.4.5 is talking about judging in the sense that is relevant to the present discussion. And in this sense of judge, we are told not to judge before the time, i.e. before the return of the Lord.
QED
Revgade already explained what it means in context. This discussions shows a common problem with Biblical interpretation - both of these provide the context of what Paul is saying and indeed throughout scripture we have a great deal about judging. The problem comes when a single verse such as the one in 1 Cor 4 is taken out of context both of the local passage and of scripture as a whole - that is when we end up with errors such as the belief that we are not to judge at all, when in fact scripture is abundantly clear that we are to judge, but to judge in accordance with the limitations imposed by God and to judge righteously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
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