Hello,

I have put together a very rough sketch of how I would like to run my rough drains for our laundry room and kitchen sink in our old 100+ year old remodel. If anyone could take a look and let me know if it looks like it would meet code (UCC 2006), I would appreciate it greatly.

I guess the main unknown to me is whether I can get away with using all 2" pipe for all drain/vent lines? I already have a 3" main stack vent on the other side of the house for our stacked bathrooms, so didn't know If I could use all 2" for these rooms (it would be nearly impossible to run 3" without ripping a lot more up than I'm able to at this point).

Also, I can run a vent where the dotted line is shown in pic as well, would it eliminate any of my other vents for utility sink and/or washing machine?

I was planning on dropping a 1" pvc condensate drain from attic air handler through laundry room ceiling into utility sink, is there a cleaner way I can plumbing this in based on my sketch?


Thanks in advance!


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- Steve

Stevekem: You have very clear idea how plumbing system should be installed. I am impressed...

I am not familiar with UCC code but under UPC your first option ( w/o dotted line vent ) would be exactly how it should be done. Yes, you can combine all three fixture into one 2" vent. Also, use long 90 degree ells for in vents and you will be just fine...

Hi Steve...

I got your PM... glad to check this along with Milo... :)

Like Milo said, all looks good here... I would only add a cleanout in the scenario and I would have you connect your vents on the second floor at about 48" off the finish floor instead of in the attic (although this means some horizontal drilling through studs... I bet). The kitchen sink would come from the downstairs and connect into the vents on the second floor also... not in attic.

You can connect all this as you drew it, but it will save time and money to connect all on 2nd floor... not in attic.

If you decide to connect the vents on the 2nd floor at 48" off the finish floor be sure to PITCH the vents toward the drain at about 1/8" per foot.

See my drawing below.

Vents could actually be 1.5 " vents until you begin to connect them then you would need to transition to 2" horizontal to connect all 1.5" vents....run 2" from there up and out the roof. If cold climate penetrate roof with a pipe between 18-24". If warmer climate can be between 6-12" above roof.

Running the vent where dotted line in will NOT eliminate the needed vents at the sinks/washing machine. Nice try... ;) Condensate line sounded correct.

Be sure to add a dandy cleanout (see other pic.) at the base of the stack just in case... ;)

Milo suggested long sweep 90s for the vents... I think he meant to use long sweep 90s on the waste lines... especially where you go from horizontal to vertical and at all changes of direction if not accessible. If accessible then would use a wye/18th combo. Fitting and a cleanout. Regular 90s are fine for the vents!

Let us know if need more here... glad to help.

MARK

Hello and thank you guys for your fast response. After thinking about it overnight, I think I may eliminate the laundry standpipe and just drain washer into utility sink (since it will be right next it). If I wish to go this route, will my drawing attached work as far as the vent? Thanks again!

- Steve

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Hi Steve...

I got your PM...glad to check this along with Milo...:)

Like Milo said, all looks good here...I would only add a cleanout in the scenario and I would have you connect your vents on the second floor at about 48" off the finish floor instead of in the attic (although this means some horizontal drilling through studs...I bet). The kitchen sink would come from the downstairs and connect into the vents on the second floor also...not in attic.

You can connect all this as you drew it, but it will save time and money to connect all on 2nd floor...not in attic.

If you decide to connect the vents on the 2nd floor at 48" off the finish floor be sure to PITCH the vents toward the drain at about 1/8" per foot.

See my drawing below.

Vents could actually be 1.5 " vents until you begin to connect them then you would need to transition to 2" horizontal to connect all 1.5" vents....run 2" from there up and out the roof. If cold climate penetrate roof with a pipe between 18-24". If warmer climate can be between 6-12" above roof.

Running the vent where dotted line in will NOT eliminate the needed vents at the sinks/washing machine. Nice try...;) Condensate line sounded correct.

Be sure to add a dandy cleanout (see other pic.) at the base of the stack just in case...;)

Milo suggested long sweep 90s for the vents...I think he meant to use long sweep 90s on the waste lines...especially where you go from horizontal to vertical and at all changes of direction if not accessible. If accessible then would use a wye/18th combo. fitting and a cleanout. Regular 90s are fine for the vents!!

Let us know if need more here...glad to help.

MARK

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Check my pic. Out below...

Kitchen sink vent can be 1.5" pipe and can connect into the 2" utility sink vent to combine and go 2" all the way out through roof.

Remember to pitch the vents at about 1/8" back toward drains.


Let me know what you think...

MARK

Hi Mark,

Well after further demo in this section, the existing 3" cast iron soil stack appears to be in pretty good shape. I think instead of ripping all of this out, I am going to just add on with PVC for the utility sink and be done with it. At this point, we are so far behind schedule because of other issues, any time savings will help us out greatly. The only part I am not sure of is whether the existing 1 1/2" vent for this would be sufficient?

I have attached a new rough sketch that shows the layout, all the blue is existing and the red is the part I would be adding on. The vent is cutoff in attic (roofer did it), so I would attach a new piece to extend out roof of 2" PVC.

The kitchen sink does not have an existing vent, so I would add an AAV to it.

What do you think?

- Steve



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Check my pic. out below...

Kitchen sink vent can be 1.5" pipe and can connect into the 2" utility sink vent to combine and go 2" all the way out through roof.

Remember to pitch the vents at about 1/8" back toward drains.


Let me know what you think...

MARK

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Hi Steve...

Good news... This works in terms of venting requirements. Only question is if you need to have this inspected? If you do and AAVs are allowed then all set! If AAVs not good you have a problem.

If you use the AAV be sure to install so AAV can be easily replaced... it must be readily accessible

:)

MARK

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the reply.

Regarding the kitchen sink, if I am not replacing the existing drain for it or making any modification to it, can the inspector say anything if no vent is present (I could add an AAV after he leaves)?

Also, yes it will be inspected, but the inspector says he will just do a final walk through after everything is done and the walls are sheet rocked. He said he appreciates homeowners doing there own work and will not come down hard on me unless there is something really wrong.

- Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Hi Steve...

Good news...This works in terms of venting requirements. Only question is if you need to have this inspected?? If you do and AAVs are allowed then all set!! If AAVs not good you have a problem.

If you use the AAV be sure to install so AAV can be easily replaced...it must be readily accessible

:)

MARK

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Steve...

See if AAVs are allowed. The kitchen sink needs a vent and the inspector will require it.

Increasing the pipe size from 1.5" to 2" may also be frowned upon. You may be better off running 1.5" to the utility sink. 1.5" is all that is required for this sink even with a washing machine draining into it...

Let me know what you think...

Mark,

I will call inspector Monday and see if AAVs are allowed for kitchen. If they are not and I have to run a vent, can the 1 1/2" vent I will run tap into the existing 1 1/2" vent in attic or does the existing vent have to be increased to 2" (the whole way) if I tap this kitchen vent into it?

Also, are you saying the piece of PVC I am adding on in the attic to the vent should be 1 1/2" not 2"?

- Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Steve...

See if AAVs are allowed. The kitchen sink needs a vent and the inspector will require it.

Increasing the pipe size from 1.5" to 2" may also be frowned upon. You may be better off running 1.5" to the utility sink. 1.5" is all that is required for this sink even with a washing machine draining into it....

Let me know what you think...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by stevekem

Hi Mark,

Well after further demo in this section, the existing 3" cast iron soil stack appears to be in pretty good shape. I think instead of ripping all of this out, I am going to just add on with PVC for the utility sink and be done with it. At this point, we are so far behind schedule because of other issues, any time savings will help us out greatly. The only part I am not sure of is whether the existing 1 1/2" vent for this would be sufficient?

I have attached a new rough sketch that shows the layout, all the blue is existing and the red is the part I would be adding on. The vent is cutoff in attic (roofer did it), so I would attach a new piece to extend out roof of 2" PVC.

The kitchen sink does not have an existing vent, so I would add an AAV to it.

What do you think?

- Steve



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In this drawing, I see no vent whatsoever for the utility sink. Your original drawing was excellent, only improved upon by masses first drawing. I would stick to this, don't short your workmanship by trying to save time, or money.

1 1/2 should be fine for all venting until they tie together and go out the roof. Change to two inch before exiting roof, unless your code specifies three inch leaving roof(cold climate only, and only certain codes require it) Our code used to requiere 4 inch roof penetration years ago, now we get by with three, but our winters are pretty harsh here.

Hi all...

Steve... best way is as drawn earlier... see below.

If you cannot use the AAV then connect kitchen vent at the utility sink or in the attic. As MGD77 stated, can then tie the two 1.5" vents together and run 2" up and through the roof (unless 3" is required in your area).

At the utility sink you cannot just increase that 1.5" drain line to 2"... not allowed. If you can go back to the cast iron fitting and tie into that 2" you would be all set, but you said it was a 3x3x1.5" fitting so seems no option there.

A 1.5" drain is all that is required for the utility sink... at least in my area, even if washing machine drains into it.

MARK

Hello Mark,

Thanks for your reply. I would be running a full 2" PVC pipe to the existing 3 x 3 x 1 1/2 cast iron fitting. I would tie this 2" pipe into the 3" section using a 3" to 2" reducing fernco (there use to be a toilet that connected to this part of the fitting). Would this sink still be considered vented even though the vent does not come off the utility sink directly (comes off 3 way fitting)? The horizontal distance between this 3 way fitting and the sink is roughly 4 - 5 feet if it matters.

- Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Hi all...

Steve....best way is as drawn earlier...see below.

If you cannot use the AAV then connect kitchen vent at the utility sink or in the attic. As MGD77 stated, can then tie the two 1.5" vents together and run 2" up and through the roof (unless 3" is required in your area).

At the utility sink you cannot just increase that 1.5" drain line to 2"...not allowed. If you can go back to the cast iron fitting and tie into that 2" you would be all set, but you said it was a 3x3x1.5" fitting so seems no option there.

A 1.5" drain is all that is required for the utility sink...at least in my area, even if washing machine drains into it.

MARK

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Hi mygirlsdad77,

Thanks for your reply. I would love to run all new pipe for this section of house, but unfortunately things have come up that require us to finish this house ASAP. We ran into so many issues (not plumbing related) that delayed our schedule and exceeded our original budget by 4 times. Due to these delays and budget issues, if it is not complete by a certain time, we will lose the house to the bank. It's extremely hard not allowing myself to replace everything with new, but unfortunately in our case right now, we really don't have any other options. Thanks again for your comments, it's nice to see others out there that seem to take pride and care about their work by doing it right. I wish ny HVAC people followed this same concept :mad:.

- Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

In this drawing, i see no vent whatsoever for the utility sink. Your original drawing was excellent, only improved upon by masses first drawing. I would stick to this, dont short your workmanship by trying to save time, or money.

1 1/2 should be fine for all venting until they tie together and go out the roof. Change to two inch before exiting roof, unless your code specifies three inch leaving roof(cold climate only, and only certain codes require it) Our code used to requiere 4 inch roof penetration years ago, now we get by with three, but our winters are pretty harsh here.

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Hi Steve...

I got you on the 3"... officially that is a 3" x 1.5" x 3" fitting (just so you know). You always read the run of the pipe first (3"x1.5") then the branch (3"). You also drew the fitting above the floor... that definitely lead to some confusion!

Anyway, with the new info. Provided... this being an old toilet fitting... then you will definitely need to run an individual vent for the utility sink. The vent needs to run above the trap in this case and since old toilet pipe is below the floor the 1.5" vent there now cannot be used for the sink. The utility sink vent and the kitchen sink drain can connect into this vent (at minimum 48" off the finish floor), but must then increase to 2".

Reducing from 3" to 2" for sink is fine, but be sure to use a SHIELDED clamp (see picture) to make the transition. You would need a 3" cast iron x 2" pvc mission or proflex style Shielded clamp (home depot should sell it). Rubber couplings are not allowed above ground!

Let us know if this is clear!

MARK

Hello Mark,

Thanks for the fyi on the fitting name, sorry for the confusion. I talked with inspector this morning and he said he is fine with an AAV on the kitchen sink as long as its accessible. So since we have to run a vent for the utility sink anyway, I decided to go with my original rough sketch, minus the kitchen sink vent. We will however reuse the existing cast iron drain and connect that existing 1.5" vent into our other 2" vents in the attic just for heck of it.

One question about the shielded ferno's, is there a reason why a shielded one is required and not just a regular one?

Also on my washing machine box, once I add the p-trap to the tee, I am about 1" too wide that prevents me from keeping everything between the studs. Can I reverse the arm part of trap and stick it directly into tee and add small piece of pipe to other end of arm that connects to u part of trap to form the p-trap? This way works perfectly as far as width? I hope I explained this correctly. :confused:


Thanks again!

- Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Hi Steve...

I got you on the 3"....officially that is a 3" x 1.5" x 3" fitting (just so you know). You always read the run of the pipe first (3"x1.5") then the branch (3"). You also drew the fitting above the floor...that definitely lead to some confusion!!

Anyway, with the new info. provided...this being an old toilet fitting...then you will definitely need to run an individual vent for the utility sink. The vent needs to run above the trap in this case and since old toilet pipe is below the floor the 1.5" vent there now cannot be used for the sink. The utility sink vent and the kitchen sink drain can connect into this vent (at minimum 48" off the finish floor), but must then increase to 2".

Reducing from 3" to 2" for sink is fine, but be sure to use a SHIELDED clamp (see picture) to make the transition. You would need a 3" cast iron x 2" pvc mission or proflex style Shielded clamp (home depot should sell it). Rubber couplings are not allowed above ground!!

Let us know if this is clear!!

MARK

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Hi Steve:

Rubber ferncos with 2 bands only are primarily made for underground plumbing so they can flex a little with the ground movement.

Shielded clamps are ridgid and keep flexible pipes firmly held in place. They are also designed to transition from any type of pipe to any other type of pipe.

And sure, you can reverse the 90 on the ptrap... inspector should not have an issue as long as you add a small piece of pipe between street 90 and trap.

Good luck!