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I'm in the state of NY and the school has denied my niece who lives with me enrollment into the school. I won't get into the details... but there is no cause for the denying her to enroll. What form and who do I file with to make sure that the school is ordered to enroll her into this public school that my tax dollars are paying for?
Whether your tax dollars are paying for this school, you are not going to get any form to force the school to enrol your niece. There probably is a legitimate reason why and maybe if you sit down and talk to them about enrolment you will find out the reasons and correct them to ensure enrollment.
They believe there is a legitimate reason... I believe there isn't. I have attempted to talk to them about it, however they will not even listen to why I believe it is okay. My beliefs are based solely on NY Education Law. However, they will not listen or give me the opportunity to explain why she should be enrolled. This is why I am looking for a way to make this happen. I seem to be the only party intrested in her education and when the school district wants nothing to do with it that is a problem. They are not helpful in anyway. I need an alternative solution to get her enrolled. I could go into the details of what they say and what I say... but I'm not looking for validation of who's correct... I would prefer the final authority say that. I'm just looking for who that final authority is.Quote:
Originally Posted by tickle
Then why don't you approach the Board of Education for New York State, wouldn't that be a good start?
You would have to appeal the ruling made by the school by going to the school board saying XYZ law was broken by the school, please grant so and so the right to go to the school. Finding out the reason your niece was denied the right to attend public school is important. If you believe they are wrong for not letting her attend you will have to go over their head and site why and back it up. (Not telling us what that reason or what happened in the meeting only makes it harder for us to help you find the correct information to fight them.)
You may need to prove that your niece has the right to go to that school, such as she lives with you and that is where she should be enrolled.
[QUOTE=cjonline;1404938] (Not telling us what that reason or what happened in the meeting only makes it harder for us to help you find the correct information to fight them.)QUOTE]
NYEducation Law Article 65 Part 1 § 3212. Definition of persons in parental relation and their duties; duties of certain other persons. 1. Definition. As used in this article,
A person in parental relation to another individual shall include his
Father or mother, by birth or adoption, his step-father or step-mother,
His legally appointed guardian, or his custodian. A person shall be
regarded as the custodian of another individual if he has assumed the
charge and care of such individual because the parents or legally
Appointed guardian of such individual have died, are imprisoned, are
Mentally ill, or have been committed to an institution, or because, they
have abandoned or deserted such individual or are living outside the
state or their whereabouts are unknown, or have designated the person
pursuant to title fifteen-A of article five of the general obligations
law as a person in parental relation to the child.
My niece lives with me in NY while her parents live in Texas... that alone should end the discussion. However, I do still have a power of attorney which the general obligations law shows can also put me in the position to act as a person in parental relation to the child. I have 3 kids of my own in the school district... so it's not a question of if we live in the correct area.
What I am being told is that I need to supply evidence that I have custody of the child. I do not need custody of the child, I need to be in a parental relation to the child... I fulfill this requirement. They have now said they will allow her to enroll but if I can not provide custody documentation in 30 days that they will kick her out... arrrgggg.
Any more thoughts as to if I am correct or missing anything?
Personally I would want to have some kind of court papers stating the child is living with me and the parents agree for me to be the guardian. Without custody papers the child's parents could cause all kinds of trouble if they got mad at you. Are the parents willing to sign over temp custody or give you guardianship? It would require you to go to court and file papers but if they sign them then this kind of stuff would be easier on you. Not to mention you would be protected and be able to medical choices if need be.
If not you might want to think about just getting an informal letter from the parents stating they gave you POA for these matters (I would ask them to list all the matter that you can deal with such as medical and educational matters) and the child can live with you. I can foresee all kinds of problems down the road without some kind of custody papers but this would be better than nothing.
And the school might just be looking for something with the parent's signature stating the child lives at your address with you for this school year. You could call the school and see if something like that would be OK or are they looking for official court papers. That would at least get you an answer to what they will except from you. Get it in writing if you can. Then you will be able to take it to the BOE and say they are denying abc law when the law states that its OK because of xyz.
Really think about getting something from the parents or file papers with the court (that may take longer than 30 days). If the child was hurt and needed to be hospitalized you wouldn't be able to sign the papers to get her help, would you? I don't think a Power of Attorney gives that kind of right – but I may be wrong.
Also I need to add that you should talk to an attorney before filing papers with the court and give them all the details and see what they say. You can also ask about the BOE, however I have been in front of the BOE here and its easy to do yourself as long as you have all the facts and codes to go by.
I forgot to say... be nice in your letter. Make it sound professional not like a know it all, if you get what I mean. You might want to have someone else read it to see if it comes across wrong or spiteful.
And good luck.
Gregoire, you weren't absolutely ready for answers when you came on line here, you were already upset with the system denying you your rights as you saw it through your 'paying your taxes'. Yes we can all site that. But on this board we too have to search FOR YOU to answer your questions, listen to your tirade. We are all busy people from all different walks of life and in different countries(I am from Canada as you may have noticed ). You can understand now, after hearing many people trying to help you out with this, as I see it, minor problem of school registrations.
Why don't you enrol her in a private school if you can't prove your point any other way. That way, you can get on with your life as you see it.
Yes, I don't agree with your disagree although a very thoughtful member chose to balance it out for me and probably saw my point, as you did not.
Get a grip on yourself before you have a heart attack.
cjonline has a very good point which you should consider "be professional' as I am sure that is what you are in real time.
Posting all of the information concerning the details of the case just doesn't make sense to me in this forum. The only real question I was asking is who do I go to in order to get this resolved. There were some good answers as to where to start, and that has been started.
But to answer CJ's questions... I have attempted to ask the school what they will accept and they have said nothing less then me having custody. That is not okay with me. I completely understand the neccessity for getting temporary custody and have already filed for it... but as you stated... it will take more then 30 days. I also already have a power of attorney which lists what I am cleared for... education/medical/etc... I did not post all of those things because I would end up writing a book explaining the details of it when all I'm really looking for is who do I go to. I do appreciate the answers both CJ and Tickle have given me...
I do not agree that it is a minor problem Tickle as it is a form of child abuse and against the law for me to be the custodian of a minor and not have them in school. Granted... the chances of that sticking under these circumstances are minimal... but if it were you that could potentially be brought up on neglect charges... you may see it as a bit more important. Yes, in the grand scheme of life it is minor... But what my current needs in life dictate places it towards the top of my current list of things to get taken care of. I do believe I drafted a respectful letter to the BOE stating the NY Education Law and how it applies to this case.
But as far as why I disagreed with Tickle's earlier comment is simple in my mind... I already had most of the bases covered and asked a specific question... what I got back was a response saying they were probably correct in denying her. I was looking for a way for someone to tell both me and the school that they are correct or incorrect because the school will not listen to reason and have chosen to take the path of pretending they can select who they do and don't want in the school. They have that right to a very minor extent... but the bottom line is they are a public school and must follow NY laws with registration and enrollment.
Here are a few examples of previous court cases similar in nature to what I am dealing with in NY.
Petitioner met statutory definition of "custodian" where there was no evidence that children had any other responsible adult claiming to be their parent or guardian, children were 8 and 9 years old and had been cared for by petitioner for past 5 years, and petitioner provided copies of their previous school records, their social security cards and birth certificates. 2001 Op Comm Ed No. 14,784.
A determination of exactly who is the person or persons in parental relation to a student, while important, is not a condition precedent to the admission of a resident to the public schools. Re Appeal of Rounds, 1983 Op Comr Ed No 11220.
Nephew of district resident is entitled to attend district school free of charge where boy's parents have effectively abandoned him without aunt having to obtain legal guardianship based on evidence that aunt exercises exclusive custody and control over boy and that he resides with her. Appeal of Deborah V. Ops Comr Ed No. 12259.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregoirec2001
Concerning the case law you have posted (and I'm getting into this late, of course);
Is your situation in accordance with the circumstances of the cases? #1 - no one else is claiming to be the parent of the child AND the c hld has been cared for by you for the past 5 years?
#2 - refers to parental relationship. From what I read you aren't the parent. You're the guardian, perhaps legal, perhaps not.
#3 - has the child been legally abandoned or at least effectively abandoned by the parents?
And then answers can go from there -
I am, by the way, also in NYS and very recently brought evidence of residence to Court when a local School Board refused to allow a foster child to attend school in a certain district. (Not involving me, I worked for the Attorney representing the foster mother.)
[QUOTE=JudyKayTee;1408916]Concerning the case law you have posted (and I'm getting into this late, of course);
Is your situation in accordance with the circumstances of the cases? #1 - no one else is claiming to be the parent of the child AND the c hld has been cared for by you for the past 5 years?
#2 - refers to parental relationship. From what I read you aren't the parent. You're the guardian, perhaps legal, perhaps not.
#3 - has the child been legally abandoned or at least effectively abandoned by the parents?
QUOTE]
#1 I have not cared for her for past 5 years... the father does want to care for her... but can't because he is not stable in any way to care for her which is why he wants her to be with us until he can clear up his current legal issues and move to NY and get a stable job and be able to provide for her.
#2 - I am in parental relationship to the child. If you look in the middle of the thread you will see where the parental relationship is defined. I meet that criteria in two different ways. First being her parents are out of the state-secondly a power of attorney was written by the parent to satisfy the general obligations law.
#3- the child has not lived with either of her parents in close to a year. She has been taken away from mother from protective services in Texas. Her father does not have a custody order... there is no custody order of any sort for her... mom and dad were never married... never filed for anything.
[QUOTE=gregoirec2001;1408944]Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
I see no answer - I only see a repeat of my post?
Sorry, I believe it has been corrected now
[QUOTE=gregoirec2001;1408944#1 I have not cared for her for past 5 years....the father does want to care for her...but can't because he is not stable in any way to care for her which is why he wants her to be with us until he can clear up his current legal issues and move to NY and get a stable job and be able to provide for her.
#2 - I am in parental relationship to the child. If you look in the middle of the thread you will see where the parental relationship is defined. I meet that criteria in two different ways. first being her parents are out of the state-secondly a power of attorney was written by the parent to satisfy the general obligations law.
#3- the child has not lived with either of her parents in close to a year. She has been taken away from mother from protective services in texas. Her father does not have a custody order...there is no custody order of any sort for her.....mom and dad were never married....never filed for anything.[/QUOTE]
#1 hangs on whether anyone else CLAIMS to be the parent of the child, as I read it, and if the father (or mother, for that fact) is signing papers as the parent, I don't see that they aren't making this claim (no what the other circumstances). The stumbling block appear to be the "claim."
#2 defines "a person in parental relation to another individual ... his legally appointed guardian, or his custodian. A person shall be regarded as the custodian of another individual if he has assumed the charge and care of such individual because the parents or legally appointed guardian of such individual have died, are imprisoned, are mentally ill, or have been committed to an institution, or because, they have abandoned or deserted such individual or are living outside the state or their whereabouts are unknown ..." I don't know if you are legally appointed (not just a signed guardianship). I do see that you are in charge and control but I don't see the other half - that the parents have died, are imprisoned, are mentally ill or have been committed to an institution. They are speaking medically diagnosed, of course. Now, the living outside the State part - you certainly meet that condition and it's an "or" not an "and" provision. I see some teeth here!
#3 - if the parent has signed some sort of guardianship over to you, I don't see that the child has been legally abandoned.
I think this has been going on for some time. Why is the School Board taking such a hard stance? What is the child doing about schooling in the meantime?
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