Ask Me Help Desk - Spanking an out of control teenager?

Hello everyone, my name is Albert. I am 24 and live in California. To make a long story short, I have an out of control 15 year old sister. I constantly wake up to her screaming at my parents at the top of her lungs, cussing them out, she constantly disrespects everyone around her, she comes and goes as she pleases, and if anyone says anything she throws a huge vulgar tantrum at everyone in the house. She has threatened violence several times, not to mention she is already on probation for shoplifting. Granted, this is was a gradual change that occurred while I was off in the military for four years. My parents are afraid to administer any type of corporal punishment to this obviously out of control teen for fear of someone calling the cops. I have been looking all over for child abuse laws, but most of what I find is in regard to toddlers getting spanked. Her behavior is getting worse and I am afraid the gloves are going to have to come off.

Just to let everyone know, I am NOT looking for a legal cop-out to beat up my sister. I love her dearly, and miss the sweet, innocent girl I left behind. I am tired of seeing my family get disrespected like this, and she needs to know that if she tries to pull that stuff on other people outside the house, she might get hurt waaay worse than anything a loving family member would dish out. I want to know from a legal standpoint about my rights as her BROTHER to discipline her in the clear absence of parental supervision in California. What about my parents? What have you guys done to deal with out of control siblings?

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Originally Posted by Dymeshot

Hello everyone, my name is Albert. I am 24 and live in California. To make a long story short, i have an out of control 15 year old sister. I constantly wake up to her screaming at my parents at the top of her lungs, cussing them out, she constantly disrespects everyone around her, she comes and goes as she pleases, and if anyone says anything she throws a huge vulgar tantrum at everyone in the house. She has threatened violence several times, not to mention she is already on probation for shoplifting. Granted, this is was a gradual change that occurred while i was off in the military for four years. My parents are afraid to administer any type of corporal punishment to this obviously out of control teen for fear of someone calling the cops. I have been looking all over for child abuse laws, but most of what i find is in regard to toddlers getting spanked. Her behavior is getting worse and i am afraid the gloves are gonna have to come off.

Just to let everyone know, i am NOT looking for a legal cop-out to beat up my sister. i love her dearly, and miss the sweet, innocent girl i left behind. I am tired of seeing my family get disrespected like this, and she needs to know that if she tries to pull that stuff on other people outside the house, she might get hurt waaay worse than anything a loving family member would dish out. I want to know from a legal standpoint about my rights as her BROTHER to discipline her in the clear absence of parental supervision in California. What about my parents? What have you guys done to deal with out of control siblings?

Sounds like she needs counselling, not someone to administer corporal punishment. If your parents are taking this behavior and it is as bad as you say, then the family should find out just what the problem is and why no one has acted before this time.

To put it mildly, I had/have an out of control sister - my parents did everything from counselling to (literally) locking her in her room, taking belongings away from her (her bedroom contained a bed and a dresser for a period of time), restrictions, time outs, suspended privileges - she was suspended from school any number of times. She continued to be disruptive and defiant (and one time violent, pushing my mother) until the day she moved out of my parents' house. To this day she is confrontational and upsetting to my mother and just about every time there's a protest about ANYTHING in my City, there she is, sign in hand. Maybe she was born that way. I don't know. My other sister and I have never been in trouble, never had that attitude. Maybe your sister was just born, well, out of control.

How is her behavior out of the house? School, friends, illegal activities? Or is this simply a "family matter."

And, yes, if you put your hands on her you will be arrested. For that matter her parents can't put their hands on her to teach her a lesson.

If you touch your sister, you will be assaulting her. You have no right to "spank" a teenage girl no matter how much you love her. In any case, you would not make her more loving generally or more loving toward you in particular by hitting her. In other words, it wouldn't work.

If you want to help her, just be listen to her without judgement and don't try to control her thoughts or actions. If she's shouting it's because she doesn't feel heard.

Be a loving older brother who wants to get to know his sister as she is now, instead of trying to make her something she was before you left. Be there for her.

I really don't want to make her into anything, really. I keep asking and I just get told to stay out of it. I don't know. I really don't know. I'm not deluded enough to think that I would make her into what she was, I was just stating the facts. I forgot to mention on the part that when anyone says anything, I meant anything.

One example of me being the compassionate older brother was when my sister was in the bathrrom for like 90 minutes, and when she finally gets out, my father asked her to do the laundry. She screams at him about how she is going out and he asks her at the last second, then she runs to her room and shuts the door. I totally disregard the fact that there was absolutely NO way for my father to tell her prior because she was in the bathroom for 90 minutes. I get her to let me in her room and try to talk to her and listen to her. I asked her if he was being rude to her or abusive, or if he said she can't go out, basically anything HE can work on. She admits not. Then I ask her what the problem was. She then turns and screams at me, and asks me what the point is. The one time I did lay hands on her was to restrain her. She was pushing me out of her room and she tried to take a cheap shot, and I basically restrained her, but I did not hit her or strike her at all. I just put her in a position to which she can't hurt me or herself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dymeshot

I really don't want to make her into anything, really. I keep asking and I just get told to stay out of it. I don't know. I really don't know. I'm not deluded enough to think that i would make her into what she was, i was just stating the facts. I forgot to mention on the part that when anyone says anything, i meant anything.

One example of me being the compassionate older brother was when my sister was in the bathrrom for like 90 minutes, and when she finally gets out, my father asked her to do the laundry. She screams at him about how she is going out and he asks her at the last second, then she runs to her room and shuts the door. I totally disregard the fact that there was absolutely NO way for my father to tell her prior because she was in the bathroom for 90 minutes. I get her to let me in her room and try to talk to her and listen to her. I asked her if he was being rude to her or abusive, or if he said she can't go out, basically anything HE can work on. She admits not. Then I ask her what the problem was. She then turns and screams at me, and asks me what the point is. The one time i did lay hands on her was to restrain her. She was pushing me out of her room and she tried to take a cheap shot, and i basically restrained her, but i did not hit her or strike her at all. I just put her in a position to which she can't hurt me or herself.

Maybe I didn't say it strongly enough - counselling. For everyone.

Don't confront her in her own room anymore, and don't try to restrain her physically again. Like ever. This is basic biology, you don't corner someone and confront them--especially in their own territory--and expect to have a calm conversation. Given that you've done that, I would not expect her to open up to you any time soon.

To be blunt, I don't know what your point was either. She's mad because she wanted to go out, not do the laundry. She was planning and expecting to go out and just as she's leaving her dad tells her to do the laundry first. Normally laundry is something that can wait. She's a teenager. It's not that complicated.

I'm sure that there were circumstances that make the rest of the family feel that dad's demand was justified, but if you want to know what she was thinking, it's not hard to understand.

I agree with Judy. I'd recommend separate counseling as well as family counseling. Your sister needs to talk to someone who can hear her side and take it in.

Meanwhile, back off and treat your sister with simple courtesy and respect. I'm betting she longs for that. Keep it up for a few weeks, and you might see a change in her attitude. And don't even think about touching her again.

This might sound totally nuts, but I would give this a try. The next time she starts screaming or yelling at you give her a hug and tell her that you're there for her when she's ready to talk about what's bothering her. It sounds like someone needs to take a different approach with her.

First this is your parents job, not yours, going to sound really bad here, if you don't like it, you move.

You can not touch her, you can not restrain her, if you do she can get our arrested.

Your parents may want to consier sending her off to boot camp.

I agree with everything in Fr. Chuck's post except the boot camp. These places are extremely harsh. So harsh that the kids get killed sometimes.

Read this before the family considers it:
The Trouble with Troubled Teen Programs: How the "boot camp" industry tortures and kills kids - Reason Magazine

And they don't work.

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In late 2004 the National Institutes of Health released a state-of-the-science consensus statement on dealing with juvenile violence and delinquency. It said that programs that seek to change behavior through “fear and tough treatment appear ineffective.”

Your family needs outside help, but I don't agree she should be shipped away at this stage. I agree with your parents decision to not hit her. They are right.

Hitting does nothing but reinforces that physical violence is acceptable.

Since you are her brother, there is nothing you can do as far as discipline goes. You can listen to her, but you cannot touch her.

She is acting out for a reason, only counseling at this point may uncover the reason.

Have you tried video taping her during one of her fits ? Maybe it might smack her back into reality if she sees how she acts.