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-   -   Israel, the chosen people of God!Rejected or not? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=276526)

  • Nov 3, 2008, 01:55 AM
    adam7gur
    Israel, the chosen people of God!Rejected or not?
    Israel is the chosen people of God. Many Christians believe that Israel is rejected by God because the Jews did not accept Jesus as the Messiah.
    Yes , they did not accept Him , but they were the first ones to believe in Him. They believed in His death , they believed in His resurrection.They believed that He is the Son of God, the Messiah.The early Church was a Jewish Church.Our Lord's desciples were Jews and through them , we the nations , the Gentiles , were born in Christ.
    I am Greek , and here in Greece the Faith in Jesus and in the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob was brought by Paul . I come from a place called Kavala which is the ancient Neapolis , very close to Phillipoi,you can find that in the Bible!

    Examine those verces!

    Joel 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

    2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
    3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.

    4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? Will ye render me a recompense? And if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompense upon your own head;

    5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:

    6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border.

    7 Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompense upon your own head:

    8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.

    9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:

    10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.

    11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

    12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

    13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

    14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

    15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

    16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

    17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

    18 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of tim.

    19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

    20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

    21 For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.


    Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

    2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

    3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

    4 Lift thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

    5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

    6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.

    7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.

    8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?

    9 Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.

    10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.

    11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

    12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

    13 The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.

    14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.
    15 Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through thee, I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations.

    16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.

    17 For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness.

    18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

    19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

    20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

    21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

    22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.


    Those prophecies are not yet fullfiled even though they existed in our Lord's time here on this earth.They are about to be fullfiled.

    So to me , Yes Israel is and always will be the chosen people of God !
  • Nov 3, 2008, 07:00 AM
    classyT

    Adam,

    The Jewish people are NOW and will ALWAYS be God' chosen people. If you read in Daniel, Gabriel explains that 70 weeks are determined upon the Nation of Israel. We have gotten to the 69'th week and God's clock has stopped for the Church period. It will pick right back up after the rapture of the church during the 7 year tribulation period. THAT is the last week. He is NOT forgotten Israel. He will come back to rule and reign there.

    Right now he is calling out people from everywhere for his bride. I do not believe he is dealing with the NATION of Israel like he did in the Old testament because of their rejection of the Lord Jesus. But he will!!
  • Nov 3, 2008, 07:36 AM
    adam7gur

    classyT
    Thank you for your answear. There is a book by Derek Prince called '' The last word on Middle East"" and I find it very good!
  • Nov 3, 2008, 12:54 PM
    Tj3

    If any people, Jews or otherwise are rejected without hope due to their sins, then there is no hope for any of us.

    Paul directed addressed and refuted this belief in the rejecteion of Israel in Romans 11.

    Like all of us, Jews must of course still receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour.
  • Nov 3, 2008, 01:54 PM
    De Maria
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by adam7gur View Post
    Israel is the chosen people of God. Many Christians believe that Israel is rejected by God because the Jews did not accept Jesus as the Messiah.
    Yes , they did not accept Him , but they were the first ones to believe in Him. They believed in His death , they believed in His ressurection.They believed that He is the Son of God, the Messiah.The early Church was a Jewish Church.Our Lord's desciples were Jews and through them , we the nations , the Gentiles , were born in Christ.
    I am Greek , and here in Greece the Faith in Jesus and in the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob was brought by Paul . I come from a place called Kavala which is the ancient Neapolis , very close to Phillipoi,you can find that in the Bible!

    Examine those verces!

    Joel 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, ....
    ....22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

    Those prophecies are not yet fullfiled even though they existed in our Lord's time here on this earth.They are about to be fullfiled.

    So to me , Yes Israel is and always will be the chosen people of God !

    Romans 11:24
    For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?



    The remnant of the Jews will be regrafted on the Tree.

    Hebrews 8: 8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
    9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
    12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


    When they accept the New Covenant in the Blood of Christ.

    However, many,.
    Acts 21:20
    And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

    ... including the foundation of the Church... :
    Ephesians 2:20
    And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


    ... have already accepted Communion with the Blood of Christ.

    Sincerely,

    De Maria
  • Nov 3, 2008, 02:07 PM
    revdrgade
    God has made many covenants with people and individuals. He tells us that they are "irrevocable". But when they are rejected by man, the blessings promised will not be received by those with whom God made a covenant. He gives many warnings to the people He led from the slavery of Egypt that THEY have a part to uphold in the great covenant of physical lands they would have from Him. And if they reject Him, they reject His promises to be their loving God.

    Lev 26:9-29

    9 "'I will look on you with favor and make you fruitful and increase your numbers, and I will keep my covenant with you. 10 You will still be eating last year's harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new. 11 I will put my dwelling place among you, and I will not abhor you. 12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people. 13 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt so that you would no longer be slaves to the Egyptians; I broke the bars of your yoke and enabled you to walk with heads held high.
    14 "'But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away your life. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. 17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.
    18 "'If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. 19 I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. 20 Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of the land yield their fruit.
    21 "'If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. 22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.
    23 "'If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me, 24 I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over. 25 And I will bring the sword upon you to avenge the breaking of the covenant. When you withdraw into your cities, I will send a plague among you, and you will be given into enemy hands. 26 When I cut off your supply of bread, ten women will be able to bake your bread in one oven, and they will dole out the bread by weight. You will eat, but you will not be satisfied.
    27 "'If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over... NIV

    It is sometimes difficult to divide the physcial blessings from the spiritual blessings... or even to divide eternal spriritual blessings from the temporal spiritual blessings He seeks to give.

    That is to say; there are Christians who, because of their faith in God's promise of eternal life in Christ, will be welcomed in heaven, but, they will be missing the blessings that God seeks to give them here on earth because they don't walk in the knowledge and faith to receive them.
  • Nov 3, 2008, 07:25 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    [I]

    The remnant of the Jews will be regrafted on the Tree.

    Scripture is clear that there remains a remnant who never left the tree:

    Rom 11:1-2
    1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.
    NKJV


    Rom 11:17-19
    17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
    NKJV

    Unfortunately there are some churches and Christians who ignore the warning in that verse and boast that the church replaced Israel.
  • Nov 3, 2008, 08:35 PM
    magprob

    Those saved in Christ are GOD's chosen people. The true tribes of Abraham are spread across the globe. Many are in Palestine and have been there for centuries. The Palestinians. (Another part of the big lie) Ashkenazim is not the true Isreal nor are they Sephardic in nature. Just be careful whom tells you that "they" are GODs only chosen people. There are imposters among us that would have you believe they are the only chosen ones when in reality, they hate Christians and Jesus Christ. Money and power are there only god. Be careful.
  • Nov 3, 2008, 08:43 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by magprob View Post
    Those saved in Christ are GOD's chosen people.

    This part is true.

    Quote:

    The true tribes of Abraham are spread across the globe. Many are in Palestine and have been there for centuries.
    Including in what is today Israel.

    Quote:

    The Palestinians. (Another part of the big lie) Ashkenazim is not the true Isreal nor are they Sephardic in nature. Just be careful whom tells you that "they" are GODs only chosen people. There are imposters among us that would have you believe they are the only chosen ones when in reality, they hate Christians and Jesus Christ. Money and power are there only god. Be careful.
    This sounds like the teachings of the British-Israelite cult or white supremacists. It is certainly not either historically nor scripturally accurate.
  • Nov 3, 2008, 09:08 PM
    magprob

    Call it what you like or have been conditioned to call it but it is true. The ones that say they are "gods chosen people" will be very happy with you. At least you are searching. Most people couldn't care less.
  • Nov 3, 2008, 09:12 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by magprob View Post
    Call it what you like or have been conditioned to call it but it is true. The ones that say they are "gods chosen people" will be very happy with you. At least you are searching. Most people couldn't care less.

    I have done my research and my views are based upon the historical facts and upon what scripture says that I reject in the strongest possible terms those false claims against the Jewish people. I find such views quite offensive.

    Is the Church Really Israel?

    Is God Finished with Israel?

    Rom 11:1
    11:1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not!
    NKJV
  • Nov 3, 2008, 09:49 PM
    magprob

    The claims are not against the Jeweish people.
  • Nov 3, 2008, 09:59 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by magprob View Post
    The claims are not against the Jeweish people.

    I guess that this was meant in "love"?

    "There are imposters among us that would have you believe they are the only chosen ones when in reality, they hate Christians and Jesus Christ"
  • Nov 3, 2008, 10:02 PM
    magprob

    Oh... you Christian Zionist are so hard headed. Fine, have it your way. You are right.
  • Nov 3, 2008, 10:05 PM
    arcura
    Adam7,
    Yes I do believe that the Jews are NOT rejected by God, they were and are His first born as God has said.
    Not all Jews rejected Jesus. Almost all of His disciples and apostles were Jews plus many more believed in Him.
    Many Jews today are Christians and some have even become Christian clergy in different denominations.
    The Jews are the bub from which bloomed our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred (arcura)
  • Nov 3, 2008, 10:06 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by magprob View Post
    Oh...you Christian Zionist are so hard headed. Fine, have it your way. You are right.

    I love truth. I am a Christian.
  • Nov 3, 2008, 10:09 PM
    magprob

    Arcura,
    Thank you for offering that.
    Could you please expound on the difference between Zionist and Shepardic Jewish?
  • Nov 3, 2008, 10:13 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by arcura View Post
    Not all Jews rejected Jesus. Almost all of His disciples and apostles were Jews plus many more believed in Him. (arcura)

    Right, just as not all Gentiles have rejected Jesus.

    If the rejection of Jesus by most Jews would have been sufficient reason for their rejection by God, then what defense would Gentiles have had, when most Gentiles have also rejected Jesus.
  • Nov 3, 2008, 10:36 PM
    magprob

    There is only one way to the Father, through the Son. So, denying the Son is not rejection?
  • Nov 3, 2008, 10:54 PM
    arcura
    magprob,
    I do not understand your logic on that.
    Please enlighten me more clearly on what your statement says.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred

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