Sorry this is long, but you need all the details.

Okay guys, I need your collecive thoughts on this dilemma, a friend of mine is having problems with her 12 year old daughter. Mom, I will call her Pam, Daughter I will call her Meg, Dad I will call him Ben

Pam had Meg later in life and Meg is an only child (I hear the groans from you all already). Pam protected and pampered Meg all throughout childhood and really wanted to be a good Mom and good friend to Meg (there goes another groan).

A few years ago Pam and Ben split up for a while. During that time when Ben would come home he was verbally abusive toward Meg. Eventually Pam and Ben got back together.

Last December Pam and Ben gave Meg a cell phone for her birthday (don’t say it, I already told Pam that was a bad idea for a 12 year old). I told Pam that my daughter has a cell phone that has pre-paid minutes on it and I only give it to her when she is going somewhere that I am not so she can use it in an emergency. Well, that fell on deaf ears, I am sure you knew that was coming too.

Meg has never been given any chores to do and has no responsibilities in the home at all. A few months ago Pam and Meg took my daughter to the mall to go shopping. Meg wanted for her and my daughter to run around the mall by themselves and originally Pam said no, but Meg got quite upset and therefore, Pam said okay. My daughter confessed later that she was scared sh****ss, and I told her she had every right to be. I have since told Pam that that was unacceptable to me and that my girl will not be going anywhere with them again.

Meg used to have quite a few friends but this year at Girl Scout Camp none of the others wanted to share a cabin with her. She has begun haning around an undesirable girl, as my daughter calls her, whom I will call Alice.

Recently Pam asked Meg to take out the trash and Meg pitched a fit. My daughter looked at her and said, and I quote, “If I ever talked to my mother like that I would be picking myself off of the floor!!” Meg just laughed. When Pam asks/tells Meg to do something she runs into her room and calls Ben on the phone and then Ben tells Pam that she is being unreasonable and therefore Meg does not have to do what she is told. Meg actually recently shook her fist at Pam.

Last night after our daughter’s swim meet Meg and her friend Alice took off to a place where Meg’s grandmother could not see them. When told to come back to the car Meg got quite angry with grandmother. Meg is constantly saying “I am 12 I can do what I want!”

Your thoughts, please.

A radical change in the habits of the parents is what's needed here.

... but you knew that and you probably know they either won't or can't do it at this point unless they are firmly dedicated to it.

That kid needs a roof over her head and food and that's it. Nothing else. If I were suggesting to neighbors who came to me with this:

1. Give Meg a final warning; sternly but lovingly: We are tired of _______ and we take responsibility and we refuse to let it continue.. . little heart to heart.
Give her responsibilities round the house.

2. If it doesn't work (it won't) then start taking away priveleges: Goodbye cell phone, computer access, trips to the mall, etc.

Your well placed sighs tell me you already know these things. Meg's behavior will not change overnight and it will not change at all unless Ben and Pam get to work.

Just my 2cent rant on it ;)

Two words... boot camp. I wouldn't suggest this if I felt this wasn't an extreme case. I would send the child to a place that would teach her to respect authority. I would not have a child treat me that way and have sat for children who behaved that way... I won. They learned my rules and the house rules and enjoyed themselves more when they were at my home because of these rules. Someone needs to set the rules since the parents can't.

Clearly this child needs discipline. How you go about applying it is the tricky question.

First - The parent is in charge, not the child. The parents have to be in agreement over what the expectations and responsibilities of the child are. When they are divided – like in this case – the child knows to simply go to the other parent and try again.

Second – If the child is misbehaving, they need to know why, what the alternative is, and what the consequence is. Parents also have to follow through on the consequence if the child makes a bad choice.

I think Pam, Meg, and Ben all need to sit down and have a “things are going to change around here” type of discussion - like Rick suggested. Pam and Ben are going to need to listen to Meg’s concerns, but also become stricter and intolerant of Meg’s tantrums. They’ll have to dole out some consequences when it becomes necessary.

Pam and Ben probably won’t like this idea, but they probably need to go to a parenting class. They need to learn their own skills in handling a difficult child. They should be able to get a referral from social services in their area.

Yeah Rick, your right, I knew this and told Pam this last night. I just thought that if she saw the same answers from y'all here she may start to believe me.

To Myth and Phyllisteakandcheese, you both are right on target too. Pam likes the idea Ben hasn't a clue, but Pam wants to avoid confrontation so I don't know if she will go through with this.

Still up for more thoughts thoough. Thanks so far.

Another question I have is how do you get Pam and Ben on the same page? He takes up for Meg, while Pam is trying to do her best to dole out the discipline. I agree she is not going about it the right way, but she is still trying.

Both of them need to be involved in the discipline and look at what there actions are doing! This child needs to be taught the meaning of life and values! I agree as above that boot camp is not a bad option as well as sending the mother and father to parent camp at the same time so they can learn to be parents and not just ( friends ) to there daughter... J 9 its going to be hard if both the parents are not willing to pull together and show group strength in dealing with there daughter, as she will just play them off one after the other.

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Originally Posted by phillysteakandcheese

Clearly this child needs discipline. How you go about applying it is the tricky question.

First - The parent is in charge, not the child. The parents have to be in agreement over what the expectations and responsibilities of the child are. When they are divided – like in this case – the child knows to simply go to the other parent and try again.

Second – If the child is misbehaving, they need to know why, what the alternative is, and what the consequence is. Parents also have to follow through on the consequence if the child makes a bad choice.

I think Pam, Meg, and Ben all need to sit down and have a “things are going to change around here” type of discussion - like Rick suggested. Pam and Ben are going to need to listen to Meg’s concerns, but also become stricter and intolerant of Meg’s tantrums. They’ll have to dole out some consequences when it becomes necessary.

Pam and Ben probably won’t like this idea, but they probably need to go to a parenting class. They need to learn their own skills in handling a difficult child. They should be able to get a referral from social services in their area.

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Could not have been stated better!

They need Family Therapy NOW!
Also, it would not hurt to look up juvenile laws and statutes - to show the little "Miss" what she will get her parents into if she does not get her act together. Although, at this point she just might try and get them into trouble just on a whim. This absoluetely needs to be resolved - but the only ones that can do anything about it are them..

Good luck in trying to help them, I sure hope it works before she breaks a law and really gets into trouble.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_9_16.gif

I hate to say it, but the parents created this " little monster' and now are reaping what they sewed.. so to speak.. unless BOTH parents 100% agree on what is or is not appropriate for this child, things will never change. This child feeds on pitting one parent against the other and knows she will win because she always has.
If Ben can't get on the same page as Pam, then Pam will forever be the " bad guy" and this will eventually destroy the family. Pam needs to step up and start putting little meggypoo in her place, and I agree, take away EVERYTHING except her food and basic clothes. Let her good behavior earn back what she treasures. Having raised two teenage daughters and a teenage son, I know from experience that taking their things away gets them where they live..

Amy, like the new Avatar? And yes, Mom and Dad created this little "monster." I have tried for the past 3 years to make this clear, but only when mom asks.

Pam apparently has some problems herself. I can only listen at this time and give input only when asked. However, this was a wonderful little girl, now I think she needs to be on the "Maury Show" and into boot camp. Parents have too many problems to focus on her and that is such a shame.

I put Johnny (4 year old) in his place the other night and Pam cannot seem to understand how I did it. I told her that I was the adult and she seemed shocked.

I am just lucky I guess.

I blame Pam and Ben for this. They had lots of time to teach Meg responsibility and manners. 12 is not too late for that, but it's going to be a lot harder. But they had better start soon, because she's just going to get more and more out of control, and before they know it she will be pregnant, on drugs, in juvie or all of the above! Then she might need something like was shown in that show Brat Camp...

Actually I feel quite sorry for Meg. She's going to have to learn things the hard way, and if she doesn't, she'll never be happy in life. Other people aren't going to give in to her demands and put up with her **** the way her parents have. She will have a hard time with relationships, jobs, everything in life, really. And if her parents don't do something now, she will grow up to hate them and feel that they don't care. Children crave discipline and rules.

As was already mentioned, family therapy is a really good idea, and Ben and Pam have to agree to certain rules regarding discipline. But yikes I feel for the whole family, 12 is old to start discipline! I mean, even my 4 year old can take out the garbage! The younger you start, the better. And being an only child, while it can set you up for being spoiled, doesn't have to be that way. My friend is an only child, but her parents were fairly strict, and she's a great person.

I wish them all much luck, and please let us know what happens, J_9!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J_9

I put Johnny (4 year old) in his place the other night and Pam cannot seem to understand how I did it. I told her that I was the adult and she seemed shocked.

I am just lucky I guess.

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I know exactly what you mean. I don't have a problem disciplining my 4 year old, either... although sometimes I worry about hurting his feelings. One of my friends on the other hand, also has a 4 year old, and she can't even get him to bed at night! He frequently stays up until midnight or 1 am! And she can't figure out how I get mine to bed at the same time every night...

http://www.yesparenting.com/articles...Impossible/105

While checking my newsletters and browsing today, I came across this site's articles. Dr. Noel Swanson has impressed me a lot lately and I think the site's articles are pretty down-to-earth.

Try it, at this point, any 'straw' to grab is helpful.

Hope this helped a little.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_2.gif Gosh, I don't remember how I managed to survive... My child was never that bad... I was lucky, I guess.

Chery, that site was really awsome. I learned a lot of that in my developmental psychology class, but this was easier to read and understand.

In this case though, I believe the parents are almost completley to blame. Children need direction parents, they have their friends at school. Pam does not discipline Meg because she is "afraid" of confrontation and Ben does not believe that his "little girl" can do anything wrong.

Your child was probably good because you were good at setting limits and being a good parent.

My children have never, ever, been anything like this. I do believe in punishment when necessary. I had to punish Johnny (4) just the other day. It broke my heart, sure, but it had to be done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J_9

Chery, that site was really awsome. I learned a lot of that in my developmental psychology class, but this was easier to read and understand.

In this case though, I believe the parents are almost completley to blame. Children need direction parents, they have their friends at school. Pam does not discipline Meg because she is "afraid" of confrontation and Ben does not believe that his "little girl" can do anything wrong.

Your child was probably good because you were good at setting limits and being a good parent.

My children have never, ever, been anything like this. I do believe in punishment when necessary. I had to punish Johnny (4) just the other day. It broke my heart, sure, but it had to be done.

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You are right - it is the parent's fault, and they need some help. Good thing is that it's never too late to learn, if you want to...

I just hope, for all concerned, that they don't continue to go through life with 'blinders' and the 'poor me' attitude. Maybe they are in need of a real shock to wake them - which would be sad.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_44.gif Too bad it takes times like this to remind some of us of what we can be thankful for - and then tell our kids we love the heck out of them.

You are so right. Pam does not want to go through life this way, she is the one that asked me for the advice. And has asked more than once. However, she does not seem to heed any advice given to her.

You are totally on spot when you use the word "blinders," at least for Ben. As I said before he does not believe his little girl can do anything wrong.

Pam even said that she would like to "set up and abduction" to scare Meg. However, creative (and cruel) this may be, nothing will change without the parents changing first.

Send the parents to boot camp and the 12 year old to me and my wife! I bet the 12 year old will be well mannered before the parents get a clue.Yes my kids were very well mannered even out of our presence and all it takes is a united front by the parents and stick to it attitude that starts at a very young age. We may spoil our grand kids somewhat but they are well behaved also, because Mom and Dad are on the same page. Unless the parents know what to do and do it together this 12 year old is in deep trouble in her later years. :cool: :mad:

I agree send the parents to boot camp. I could straighten her out myself for that matter, and I so when she is in my house we go by my rules. May sound a little harsh, but one day she was over here for my daughter's slumber party and I asked Rae where meg was and she said she did not know. I found Meg closed up in my office talking to her "boyfriend" on her cell phone. I told her to hang up and hand me the phone, which she did. At that point I called Pam to let her know exactly what I did so long drawn out stories would not come up.

I gave the phone back to Meg when it was time for her to leave. I just found out last night that one night when Rae spent the night there there was "soft porn" on the television. By that I mean strippers. Rae and her other friend just walked out of the room.

Meg asked where they were going, so they told her they were not allowed to watch that and were leaving the room. Meg then said "well, if you don't tell your parents they won't know."

Do you believe that CRAP! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I have since told Rae that she is not allowed over there anymore. Meg may come here but only under my STRICT supervision.

P.S. Meg's parents were in their bedroom.

I agree about the boot camp for parents and sending Meg to another family for "training". I think it would be easier on Meg if she is told by some other adults how to behave properly, rather than by her parents. She likely doesn't have much respect for her parents, since they never disciplined her before. I know personally I would feel a ton of resentment towards parents who had never seemed to care, suddenly acting like I was the bad one! I was not nearly in the same situation as Meg, as my parents were mentally ill and I was in foster homes a lot of the time. However, I definitely had a lot more respect for the foster parents and the nuns at my boarding school than my biological parents. I can't imagine my parents ever disciplining me, after how sick they acted, the abuse and neglect, and the way they ignored me.

Once Meg and her parents have been separated for a while, both parents and daughter will have changed for the better, and then they can re-unite and have a much easier go of it. At least I think it would be easier, for all involved.

It sounds as if they need to go on montel's show... you might see if you can get them to... lol. Public embarrassment at the way their daughter behaves might just shock them into a change.