Hi, I have a question. I am a fair person. I am african american plus some other things but on my appearance I am either black or hispanic. My husband is in the same boat. My mother in law is white and my father is black/white as well so I have no reason to make this up. I went to a restaurant that was open 24 hours at around 11pm on my birthday with my husband to get a bite to eat before the midnight showing of x-men started. We entered the restaurant. My husband sat on the bench my the hostess podium and I stood for about five minutes. While we lingered there, many employees walked by and stared at us, the guy at the check out desk that was about 3 ft away from the hostess podium just looked at us and then began to talk to a friend that walked in after us. I would not normally complain. The place had a lot of people for a weekday do I was willing to walk. Ten minutes have passed and no one has even said we will be with you momentarily. I have frequented that restaurant in the past and often times the person behind the desk will come over after their transaction and seat us. I still was trying to remain positive thinking well because there are many people here, they may be finding a table. Well after about twelve minutes, I was ready to go to the kitchen or dining area myself and ask for some service but before I could do that, an older caucasian couple walked in. They stopped right next to us. They were not even in the restaurant 15 seconds when it appeared that a manager walked right up, and seated them. By that time I was very angry. I told my husband to get a comment card and let's go. This is not the end oh no. I decided to call the restaurant to speak with the manager. You see all the employees, identified by there shirts were caucasian. Well I spoke the manger and explained to him that I was a decorated disabled war vet and I just recently came back from serving in the war efforts, who just wanted to end off her birthday nice. I did not speak any ill words to the gentlemen, I know I sounded upset though. I told him what happened and instead of saying, Mam we are sorry, why don't you come back we can try to fix it for you, he said well I don't know what to tell you. When I explained that we were black and the other couple who came in right before us was seated and the couple after us was seated more than promptly, and they were caucasian he further insulted me by saying he didn't see us even though he supposedly was at the podium all night. When I described the couples, his employees, and even an off duty employee was had come in and chatted with staff, he told me well there was no off duty employee her. I asked him was he calling me a liar and he said no but that he was there and I wasn't, so now I asked him were the black people now invisible liars? I just want to know if this is a case for discrimination... Believe me, I am not the lawsuit filing type. If I was, then many restaurants and even an employer who forced me to resign because he stated he knew I didn't like the job, only weeks after I informed them of a twin pregnancy. I had lot's of proof of that one including a letter from him, the chief of police a week prior to my "resignation" stating that I was an outstanding employee and their should be more like me. But I didn't, I am just getting sick of being pushed around and the only one who suffers is me. Please tell me if this is grounds for a case or not and sorry for the long commentary but I had to get it off my chest.

Hi, jz,
Thanks for asking a question here, and Welcome to this site. I am sure you will get many answers.
I am not a lawyer, nor a Professional in this area. But, am 64 yrs old, seen a lot in my life so far.
This does, to me, sound like Discrimination.
My suggestion would be to go back to the same Restaurant, during the same hours, similar number of people during rush hour. See if the same thing happens.
If it does, I would then call a reputable lawyer, maybe someone who a friend knows, or someone locally, and get some Professional adivce on how to proceed.
I does seem as if the manager was "dismissing you" in any way he could! Be sure to document, as you have, so your lawyer will have something in writing to go on. I do wish you the best, good luck, and maybe someday, skin color won't matter in America.

Proof is the real issue with any situation, you would need some employee that would testify as to company policy.

Also I keep hearing that you stood there, did you speak to someone, did you ask them when am I going to be seated, did you tell the person when they started to wait on the other couple, excuse me we were hear first.

You also have some level of responsibility to ask for service.

And why not go to the kitchen, I have done that twice at a shoney's, after they left me standing more than 8 minutes ( and I am white) I just go behind the counter and start fixing me a drink ( coffee or soda),

Last week I was in a waffle house ( also known for bad overall service many places) there were 4 or 5 people behind the counter and it was 8:30. There were only about 4 tables in use but every table in the non smoking section were filled with dirty dishes. After about 5 minutes of asking when I was going to get a table I demanded to get the regional mangers office number and called him on the phone while the were clearing tables. And I just refused to pay for the food when it was over.

Honstely I am a teddy bear except when a place that is suppose to be supplying service, fails to give that service.

Most likely it is just very poor management and very poor customer service.

I agree with Fr Chuck.

It sounds like poor management and very poor customer service, not discrimination.

And as already pointed out, why did you not simply ask to be seated? Grabbing a comment card is pretty much useless. I am white and sometimes I have had to wait, so what I do is speak up, grab an employee and ask when I will be seated.

Well I spoke to a waitress who in passing said someone would be with me shorthly. It was obvious that she had many tables and she could not seat me. However, when she said this, the counter guy was in his conversation and the like. I can tell you one thing, I don't feel like I have made a bigger issue than was at hand. When the couple that walked in after us was taken away, it happened seemly so fast that I did not have time to say anything. I took the comment card because my idea was to call the coporate office but you have to realize that this was my birthday, the last birthday I had was spent away from my family in Iraq so I was willing to relax and wait. I was in conversation with my husband off and on during that time so the time ticked away not with me seething and upset but with me still in good spirits but wondering why everyone just looked at us and walked the other way. Like I previously said, I do not go out of my way to call someone on discrimination. I have lived in communities as a minority all my life. I am used to some actions whether wrong or right and just deal with them. I can say this it was only after I mentioned color that the manager basically called me a liar. I used to be a waitress at a popular US restaurant and my dad is a chef who caters. I am a cook as well, I did that plus other things for the Army because I love. I hae endured being on the other end of bad service so I am usually the last one to complain, however if the manager had reacted differently, maybe apoligized instead of accusing and blaming, I would have dropped the entire issue. Even my husband was surprised that I reacted in such a way because I can get the wrong order, the food prepared wrong and everything and I am pleasant and cordial.Two weeks prior to that I had taken my mom, and my children to the same restaurant and the waiter dropped a plate that landed a good amount of food on my clothing. I was still pleasant and the waiter received a nice tip. I know mistakes when I see it but being blatant was just wrong. I did not want to confront the manager at that point because one, we still had to get something to eat and now on had 30 minutes to do it and I was angry and I don't like to speak to people when I am angry because my head is not clear. By the time I spoke with him on the phone, I had calmed down. Thanks for answering. I appreciate the comments. As I stated before, I have a mixed up family and so does my husband. I get along with all races, but I do not feel that people should be allowed to do things, and say things out of line and not be reprimanded for it.

It sounds to me like discrimination and I would be upset too. But the question is: Does it warrant a lawsuit, does it warrant registering a protest, or is it just upsetting and needs to be shrugged off. Your call obviously.

While I am not the suing kind, I do write letters. I like to make factual, and sometimes well supported (like you said, with documents) complaints in circumstances where I think something is grievously wrong. :(

In this case you need to make it clear that you were, indeed, seen and by how many people and that the manager failed to ask who was first when he approached both couples for seating.

I address it to the one at the very top (the internet is marvelous for finding out that sort of info) and copeis all the people I dealt with, of course. Sometimes it affects some change on their part. Mostly it affects a change on my part though LOL :D

I have a whole file folder on this, should some really hungry lawyer ever come knocking on my door and talk me into something more. ;)

There have been cases where class action discrimination suits were successfully brought against a restaurant... Denny's, if I recall correctly. But I am not all that convinced we can legislate any morality in the long run.

Happy belated birthday. :cool:

Hi jz:

Having been involved in fine dining restaurants, I can tell you that discrimination is rampant. But, you already know that.

If it were me, and I really wanted to DO something, phone calls, letters and lawyers wouldn't be it. I like to FEEL the pain I inflict, and watch 'em squirm. How I would accomplish that in your case, is make a nice sign, saying "RACIST RESTAURANT", or something equally inflamitory and just parade out front on the sidewalk during dinner hour.

I'll bet you'll attract some attention. Maybe they'll even invite you in for a free dinner.

excon

I would assumme with the comment that it was not a "fine" dinning restaurant, the "open 24" hours sort of gives me the empression it was one of the medium range type. If it is a nationally known brand, I will say this, people often get the level of service that they demand.

I am one that most likely everyone hates, If I have a number in my group, I will personally move what tables I want together,

If they have a note on the menu that a tip is automatically added, I call for the manager and tell him that it is not legal and that I will refuse to pay a forced tip.

And if I don't get good service, everyone in the place will know it, I am not quiet by any means ( God only knows why I have not been thrown out of a few places during my life time)

And ( of course now adays I walk with a cane) if I have to wait any at all, I demand seating somewhere.

and of course the number in a party, the smoking or non smoking issue will determine how long you have to wait.

In places like Cracker Barrell ( they don't care for me much) they have in many stores very little division between smoking and non smoking, if they ever sit me by a wall (often that latice board) next to a smoking table, they would rather have the wrath of God than what I end up causing if a smoker is sitting next to me.

My wife is black and honestly, with or without her I see poor service everywhere. It is a sign of first poor up bringing of many of today's youth.
The fact that the public will not withhold their money from these places.
When is the last time you have refused to pay or refused to pay full price if a meal was just bad.

How many people will tip a hostess a little even for bad service.

Yes most likely my photo is on the wall of many of a eating place with a warning.

And of course my real pet peeve is the buffet line in the smoking section, you have to walk though it to get your food, people with serious asthma have problems with this. Guess what I do, I demand that the watress supply me a list of all the food on the buffet, and that she make my plate.

I have learned along time ago, that demanding works a lot better than asking.

While of course racism happens, and yes places that practice it need to be brought to task for it. But commet cards have little value, demanding to see a manger at time of service is one real help.

Hello Padre:

I know, in Tennessee, the only 24 hour joint you have is the Waffle House or Denny's. However, in the sophisticated north, there are 24 hour fine dining establishments. You need to get out more.

excon

PS> I do love Tenessee BBQ best of all, though.

I do know what you mean JZ0917, sometimes their error is compounded by more error, and you get stuck on the same ride with them! Arrgh! I experienced that with a disastrous (and what now looks like unnecessary) overnight stay at a new hospital. The further up the chain I went, the more ridiculous I experienced them. It was fairly shocking to me. Won't be going there again (laughs) :eek:

I ended up writing a letter explaining my refusal to pay the bill to which I got no response (surprise surprise).

Then I let go of it. Sometimes that is as good as it gets?

Fine dinning , that is where you have to first wear shoes and shirts, and they have those plastic table cloths?

I do have to laugh, I used to interview applicants for jobs in a department for the government many years ago, I used to always treat the final three for a job out to a dinner. ( separately of course so I got to eat out more) I would ask them where they would like to eat, many listed very fine places, well I was interviewing a gentleman from a southern state and he said he wanted to go to a "real fancy" place, Capt D's, it is a fast food fish place. To him that was a fancy place.

JZ-Whether you are black, white or blue poor service and bad upbringing run wild all over and you as a paying customer do not have to take this kind of abuse or treatment from anyone. Whether it is discrimination or just bad service you nip it in the bud right then and there. In a loud voice just call for a manager and tell him the problem and go from there. As others have said there are many ways to follow up and get action so take heed to their advice and stop being black(or whatever shade of human you are,makes no difference) and be indignant and get what you think your due! You may not get a free meal, but you'll feel better!:cool: ;)

Hey Valor,
I don't want a free meal. I don't ever want to go to that restaurant again. I have seen bad employees, but when the management could care less then the staff could either. I wish I could stop being black. As much I try to "blend" there are still people out there who think of you as lower class no matter where you live, what you drive or how you speak. In college people assumed that I was at this particular university because of a special innercity program, whereas the real reason I got in was because I had high act/sat scores and was an honor grad at my not predominantly black school. As a black person, I don't go out of my way to find racism, discrimination or anything else and you are right, it may have been just poor service and in a different state of mind I would have called a scene then and gave the manager the what for, but I was tired angry, I just finished fighting a war so no telling how I would have reacted it if had said some of those things to my face. I am a christian woman and I believe that there is a time and place for everything.However at that time on my special day I did not feel that it would be in my or the managements best interest to confront him. Myabe he would not have said some of the things he did face to face. That is something I will never know but I do know this, just like I have to be mindful of what I say like for example to people from Iraq because of the tense situation, others have to be mindful of how they speak. It's like telling someone who can't walk and has to have someone push them around "well i didn't see you because you didn't walk yourself up to the counter and find me to do my job" That would be in poor taste. I do have the corporate number so I still may call. Not for a "free meal" because I couldn't care less about that, but for an apology to say the least. Have a great day all and thanks for responding to my post. And by the way surprisingly it was Denny's (It was the only late night place open for a midnight show and it was not far from the theater in an area where the homes start at 400,000 and up)

I am sorry for a misunderstanding. I wasn't implying you wanted or should even be satisfied with a free meal. Nor was I looking for free medical care either in the sample I listed. It was more the principle that sometimes you don't get anything to satisfy the wrong.

Now that you mention it was Denny's, this may be more viable for legal action since others have successfully blazed a trail there. Just a thought?

Well thank you for that. I wasn't trying to attack you really. I just feel frustrated when it seems people think all minorities take things out of proportion or out of context. When a person deals with racism and discrimintaion on a almost daily basis and lets it go because it is the norm, the outright obvious one is the one that really demands action not that all don't but you can't really change another person's opinions about an entire race in one conversation and if you get mad then it further feeds into there beliefs. I don't know I have let so many things go. I had a hospital incident before. I didn't have a rash or anything and for the 1st time in my life dealing with a physician, the doctor came in and put on gloves to touch me but did not do that when my mother in law who is white was examined at the same hospital. He didn't draw blood or anything, he just used the gloves to touch my skin. I went in for extreme back pain? Go figure. I just am tired of letting things go and dealing with the thoughts of it while the other person lives their lives and thinks nothing of it. Thank you and I appreciate your responses and I am sorry if I am mad you feell under attack::D

Hello again, jz:

Couple things. I'm not black. I try to empathize, but I know I can't. Well, maybe a little. I'm a Jew. I used to try to fit in, and move around discreetly, and act like I was like everybody else. But some were quick to remind me!

I decided then, that I'm not the same, and that I'm not going to pretend to be anymore. An amazing thing happened next. I became PROUD to be a Jew.

>>> I wish I could stop being black. <<<

I wish you could become proud of who you are. Maybe, if you really stepped up to the plate and opened your mouth LOUDLY every time you experience discrimination, you'll develop pride. I hope you do.

A very good way to start (and enrichen yourself at the same time - why not?), is to sue Denny's *** off. Do it, if not for yourself, for your children.

excon

Hi excon, When I made the statement I was I could stop being black, I was referring to a comment that someone else made about stop being "black" instead be a person but I responded by saying that I wish it was that easy to just be a person in the world instead of just another black person or in your case a Jew. I am proud of my heritage and instill that in my biracial children as well.