Hi,
I am from Ontario, Canada. I got caught for the very first time at the loblaws store on Friday with my 18 month old daughter. I wasn't really shoplifting , I was in a rush as she was very hungry & sleepy and Id to get home in time to pick up my son from the bus stop(orelse they take him back to school & then call the Police).
I had purchased some cosmetics and other grocery items of $60 value and some items that were on 50% stickers. I had lots of things in her stroller which were not fitting and so I had to put away stuff all over the stroller. I paid and didn't realise that I had not paid for a perfume and 5 lipsticks (which I was purchasing for my sisiters upcoming wedding) total items not paid came to $73. Anyway, I walk out & a lady approaches me saying you need to come with me, I was not sure at that time, till she took me to this room & said please empty all the things you didn't buy. I wasn't still sure... then she told me where is the 50% sticker, I said I am not sure what you are talking about & she told me to take out the meat that I'd bought which was $13 & I paid $6.50 for it (since it had the sticker). She told me If I cooperate then it will better for me & I panicked and said I switched stickers to get the discount. I had purchased 2 more items but they were on discounts as well, she didn't question me on that. By now I was paranoid... as she told me that she had called the Cops & ill be here for a long time and someone needs to get my baby as Im going to Jail . This is my first time getting caught & I was very scared- a nervous wreck as my daughter was crying & sleepy and I was not sure what to do. I wanted to make a phone call & she wouldn't let me as she said Ive to wait till the cops come. Then she made me sign this piece of paper saying that Loblaws is going to Sue me later.I told her I wante dto talk to my husband or consult a lawyer and she said that I can't go unless I sign the paper. Anyway, after waiting for awhile the Cop came & he was very nice but yet I got a summon to the court & am going for fingerprinting on the 22nd oct. My court date was Oct 31st .
After I came back home , the Cop called me twice to tell me that the dates have changed and I'll get something send to me in person or by mail later on. They have pushed both the dates to Nov/ now.
What are my chances? What shd I do? This is my first time and I don't want to go to Jail , I've to small kids who need me and I am a stay at home mom . And this was not my intention. I have a financial background and am scared if I get a record Ill never be able to work. The Cop kept telling me that I am over-reacting & that this is my first time so it won't be that bad... but I am still so scared. I have not slept since Friday and am so scared that Ill lose everything... my kids, my husband, my whole life... Please help. I am also due to travel in dec/ for my sisters wedding to India and am not sure what will happen. We have already bought tkts & paid for it. Can someone please advise & help me. We can't afford a lawyer as I heard they are very expensive , so we are planning on going to the court with our 2 kids and representing ourselves. BUT I AM SO SCARED . I don't want to go to Jail or lose my family . Will I get a Criminal record. What shd I do, will I be able to travel... Please help... Someone!!

"I paid and didnt realise that I had not paid for a perfume and 5 lipsticks (which I was purchasing for my sisiters upcoming wedding) total items not paid came to $73."

Why would you need 5 lipsticks and perfume for a December wedding? I'm sorry, I really don't buy your excuse of you "forgot" to pay for things plus you admitted that you switched the 50% off sticker to get 1/2 off on the meat. That was a calcuated act on your part to deceive the store. Tag switching like that is illegal as well and on the same level as shoplifting. You seemed to know perfectly well what you were doing.

You had enough money to purchase airplane tickets from Canada to India. Why don't you cash in the tickets to pay for an attorney instead?

Since you claim to have a financial background, didn't it occur to you that you left out 5 lipsticks and a perfume and that your total bill was substantially less than it should have been? Apparently you can't add either.

So much for the lecture.

There are several different answers posted here about Canadian shoplifters and the lienent laws they have for first offenders. You can use the search mode to find many different postings of Canadians who shoplift. You happened to get caught. You don't have to convince us of your innocence, save that for the judge. The next time it will not go so easy for you.

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Originally Posted by s1976

Hi,
I am from Ontario, Canada. I got caught for the very first time at the loblaws store on friday with my 18 month old daughter. I wasn't really shoplifting , I was in a rush as she was very hungry & sleepy and Id to get home in time to pick up my son from the bus stop(orelse they take him back to school & then call the Police).
I had purchased some cosmetics and other grocery items of $60 value and some items that were on 50% stickers. I had lots of things in her stroller which were not fitting and so I had to put away stuff all over the stroller. I paid and didnt realise that I had not paid for a perfume and 5 lipsticks (which I was purchasing for my sisiters upcoming wedding) total items not paid came to $73. Anyways, I walk out & a lady approaches me saying you need to come with me, I was not sure at that time, till she took me to this room & said please empty all the things you didnt buy. I wasnt still sure ...then she told me where is the 50% sticker, I said I am not sure what you are talking abt & she told me to take out the meat that I'd bought which was $13 & I paid $6.50 for it (since it had the sticker). She told me If I cooperate then it will better for me & I panicked and said I switched stickers to get the discount. I had purchased 2 more items but they were on discounts as well, she didnt question me on that. By now I was paranoid ...as she told me that she had called the Cops & ill be here for a long time and someone needs to get my baby as Im going to Jail . This is my first time getting caught & I was very scared- a nervous wreck as my daughter was crying & sleepy and I was not sure what to do. I wanted to make a phone call & she wouldnt let me as she said Ive to wait till the cops come. Then she made me sign this piece of paper saying that Loblaws is going to Sue me later.I told her I wante dto talk to my husband or consult a lawyer and she said that I can't go unless I sign the paper. Anyways, after waiting for awhile the Cop came & he was very nice but yet I got a summon to the court & am going for fingerprinting on the 22nd oct. My court date was Oct 31st .
After I came back home , the Cop called me twice to tell me that the dates have changed and I'll get something send to me in person or by mail later on. They have pushed both the dates to Nov/ now.
What are my chances? What shd I do? This is my first time and I dont want to goto Jail , ive to small kids who need me and I am a stay at home mom . and this was not my intention. I have a financial background and am scared if I get a record Ill never be able to work. The Cop kept telling me that I am over-reacting & that this is my first time so it wont be that bad.....................but I am still so scared. I have not slept since friday and am so scared that Ill lose everything ....my kids, my husband, my whole life .....................Please help. I am also due to travel in dec/ for my sisters wedding to India and am not sure what will happen. We have already bought tkts & paid for it. Can someone please advise & help me. We can't afford a lawyer as I heard they are very expensive , so we are planning on going to the court with our 2 kids and representing ourselves. BUT I AM SO SCARED . I dont want to goto Jail or lose my family . Will I get a Criminal record. What shd I do, will I be able to travel ....................Please help........Someone !!!!

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You've posted this 3 times and I've asked that the posts be combined. I don't know why you didn't expect the Police Officer to arrest you but that's a side issue. I also don't know if the case will be concluded by December and, if not, if you will be allowed to leave Canada. An Attorney could tell you that. When you argue you weren't stealing BUT you can't afford an Attorney AND you have a financial background you are arguing against yourself.

I DEFINITELY would not take your children to Court with you - I don't see the point of it nor will the Court.

Putting things in children's strollers and forgetting about them seems to be a Canadian national sport - with apologies to my Canadian friends. (I'm quoting a friend here and she may or may not want to take credit for the statement. It's not my original work!)

Anyway, here's how diversion works (quoting myself) or doesn't work, as the multiple posts on this subject indicate:

"Ontario diversion program guidelines vary from region to region, Courthouse to Courthouse. Eligibility for such a program is ALWAYS determined by the Crown Attorney's office. There are no exceptions. You are not required to have legal counsel in order to apply.

If the offense - theft - is not major (property was recovered, not a large amount, not a repeat offender) the Crown Attorney MAY approve eligibility into the diversion program prior to the Curt appearance.

If there are prior dealings with the Police - and charges do not have to be placed, any prior dealings of a negative nature - the person will most likely not be eligible for the diversion program.

As part of the diversion program the eligible person will have to agree to complete certain tasks or obligations - perhaps watch a video, make a donation or volunteer time to a not-for-profit, write a paper on the crime.

When the tasks/obligations have been competed to the satisfaction of the Crown's Attorney he/she will recommend to the Judge that the criminal charge (usually, theft) be withdrawn.

Each courthouse in Ontario has a different diversion program and eligibility requirements differ from region to region. Eligibility for the diversion program is always determined by the Crown Attorney's office. If they deem a theft offence to be of a minor nature (usually a small quantity of merchandise was taken and the property was recovered), the Crown may pre-approve eligibility into the diversion program. A person will not generally be eligible for diversion if they have had prior dealings with the police (even if it did not result in a criminal charge being laid). Once in the diversion program, the eligible candidate may be asked to complete one of a number of different tasks. In some jurisdictions, a person charged with theft may be required to watch a video on shoplifting. In other jurisdictions they may be required to make a donation to charity or complete a minimum number of community service hours - or both. Regardless of the requirements, the end result is usually the same. Once the diversion program has been completed to the satisfaction of the Crown Attorney, the Crown will recommend to the court that the criminal charge of theft be withdrawn against the accused person. This will result in the accused person maintaining a clean record (assuming they didn't have a prior criminal record).

If a person is not pre-screened as eligible for the diversion program, a lawyer may be able to convince a Crown Attorney to reconsider their decision."

I've left your other posts but asked that any responses be posted here. In the future please don't ask your own question in someone else's thread. This usually cause confusion.

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Originally Posted by s1976

Hi There, I had a few questions for you as I am in the same situation with Loablaws. Have you gotten anything in mail from them since the lady said that she will will sending me something to sue me. Also what is the diversion program ?? Are you on probation ...for how long? Can you travel during this time? What did you have to do to get out of this?Community hrs? Can you please help me?I am to goto court in Nov. What happens to your record - does it go clean and also your fingerprints??
Thanks for any HELP!!! Please respond in the thread I started here:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/crimin...ed-266295.html

{Mod Note: Please don't piggyback your question on someone else's thread. Anyone wishing to repond to S1976 should follow the link to thethread he started. <>}

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Yes I was told about a letter in the mail but nothing has come yet :S they said within the week and its been 1.5 months since it happened so I duno what up with that. Loblaws is a huge corporation and they prob have bigger fish to fry. I talked to a lawyer and he said sometimes it could take up to a year for them to send a letter which makes no sense since the charges will have been dropped by then, or they could have brushed it aside having bigger things to worry about like I said. The diversion program is just a program implemented for first timers I believe. They have a shop lifting program at end of every month, a class usually given to shoplifters. But I didn't get that, or the elizabeth fry program which I got. This entails you to call a diversion center right after your first court appearance and they will give you something to do, called diversion. In this case, for a first timer, 90% of the time, its to pay a donation to a charity like $200, once you do that, the diversion program people will say that you've done what you needed to do. After your first court date the crown will set another date for you to come back, mine was 2 months after my first court date where you will say that you've completed the div program and there you have it, charges will then be dropped and I believe you apply for finger printing to be destroyed and you never ever do this again! I must remind you that the div program has a number of things they could give you to do, like write an essay, a apology letter, community service, etc but I don't think they bother with those for 1st timers, they will most likely make you pay a donation. Also I talked to 2 lawyers at the courthouse and both said the store sending you a fine is a scam, and that you should not pay it. They cliam this is what they do for all their clients in this position and that everyone who does not pay it never has it come back to them. Im not on probation, not that serious, I believe you can travel, but once again after charges are dropped for me in 2 months there will be no question as to if I can travel, but you should be able to.

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Originally Posted by joker123

Yes i was told about a letter in the mail but nothing has come yet :S they said within the week and its been 1.5 months since it happened so i duno what up with that. loblaws is a huge corporation and they prob have bigger fish to fry. i talked to a lawyer and he said sometimes it could take up to a year for them to send a letter which makes no sense since the charges will have been dropped by then, or they could have brushed it aside having bigger things to worry about like i said. the diversion program is just a program implemented for first timers i believe. they have a shop lifting program at end of every month, a class usually given to shoplifters. but i didnt get that, or the elizabeth fry program which i got. this entails you to call a diversion center right after your first court appearance and they will give you something to do, called diversion. in this case, for a first timer, 90% of the time, its to pay a donation to a charity like $200, once you do that, the diversion program people will say that you've done what you needed to do. after your first court date the crown will set another date for you to come back, mine was 2 months after my first court date where you will say that youve completed the div program and there you have it, charges will then be dropped and i believe you apply for finger printing to be destroyed and you never ever do this again! i must remind you that the div program has a number of things they could give u to do, like write an essay, a apology letter, community service, etc but i dont think they bother with those for 1st timers, they will most likely make you pay a donation. also i talked to 2 lawyers at the courthouse and both said the store sending you a fine is a scam, and that you should not pay it. they cliam this is what they do for all their clients in this position and that everyone who does not pay it never has it come back to them. Im not on probation, not that serious, i believe you can travel, but once again after charges are dropped for me in 2 months there will be no question as to if i can travel, but you should be able to.

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Thanks for all your help... I was wondering can you request them about the dates... what is the Elizabeth Fry Program ?What did they tell/give you to do? Is that part of the diversion program as I am confused since you said you had to pay a donation plus got the Elizabeth Fry Program . Sorry so many questions - I am so ashamed of myself & can't get this out of my head. So do you have a criminal record till they destroy the fingerprints? As I read somewhere that if they give you diversion there is no record but yet the fingerprints stay for aleast 1 year. Is that true? If you have a record then you can't get passport/visa to travel... can you request the crown about the travelling part? Thanks again so much... someone understands what I am going through ' :(!!

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Originally Posted by s1976

So do you have a criminal record till they destroy the fingerprints? As I read somewhere that if they give you diversion there is no record but yet the fingerprints stay for aleast 1 year.

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Generally they never destroy your fingerprints. You will have a criminal record until you complete the terms of the diversion program. Once you do, your criminal record will be expunged.

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Originally Posted by s1976

Thanks for all your help......I was wondering can you request them abt the dates ....what is the Elizabeth Fry Program ?What did they tell/give you to do? Is that part of the diversion program as I am confused since you said you had to pay a donation plus got the Elizabeth Fry Program . Sorry so many questions - I am so ashamed of myself & can't get this out of my head. So do you have a criminal record till they destroy the fingerprints? As I read somewhere that if they give you diversion there is no record but yet the fingerprints stay for aleast 1 year. Is that true? If you have a record then you can't get passport/visa to travel........can you request the crown abt the travelling part? Thanks again so much .......someone understands what I am going thru ' :( !!!

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As far as I know the Elizabeth Fry program is only available in Vancouver and it's a charitable organization originally formed for the needs of females who have committed jailable offenses.

As far as diversion - did you read the very comprehensive info I posted?

Yes, you can get a passport and if there is no record, a visa - AFTER you have completed the terms of your sentence. Again, read what I researched and posted.

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Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

As far as I know the Elizabeth Fry program is only available in Vancouver and it's a charitable organization originally formed for the needs of females who have committed jailable offenses.

As far as diversion - did you read the very comprehensive info I posted?

Yes, you can get a passport and if there is no record, a visa - AFTER you have completed the terms of your sentence. Again, read what I researched and posted.

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Thanks a lot Judy , I am just been very sorry about this whole thing. My little one was with me & I am glad that they never find out what bad soup mom got into... I have not slept since then. I am being harsh on myself but this will never happen ever again... I just want to say I am sorry and hope that I get a warning and get out. I don't want to go to Jail . I hope I get the diversion , I have never done this before and I have no records. Do they ban you from traveling when you have a record? No passport or visa's for people with criminal records? Thanks again Judy!!

Read what Judy sais, she already answered your question.

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Originally Posted by joker123

k so now my dumb sister threw out all the papers we got from court, because she didnt want my parents to find them. she said the lady at diversion told her to bring papers to the appointment for diversion, but she said she has our files. Is this going to be a problem?

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Hi There, So what kind of diversion program did you get? Do you have to go to a Diversion place and they assign you your task? How long do you have eto finish it and how busy are they at the Diversion place?As in the normal wait to get your turn for thr program? So after you have completed your Diversion task you go back to the court again & then they clear your record? Please let me know what happens. Thanks so much again.

{MOD Note: I moved this from the other thread. Please do not mix questions in a thread. }