Ask Me Help Desk - Sold a motorcycle on craigslist and buyer is unhappy and is sueing

OK well here's my story:
I recently sold a motorcycle on craigslist. (listing is at the bottom). I had it for a total of little more than 2 weeks before I sold it. I bought the bike to be an second bike to keep from racking up miles on my other motorcycle or become a stunt bike. When I bought the bike it was in running condition ran fine and no problems TO MY KNOWLEDGE. I to drove it to school and back for 2 weeks which totals around 80 miles and sometimes at night just for fun. Then I sold the bike to another college student. He didn't ride it when he came to look at the bike but he started it up and it ran fine. He liked it so he bought it. So I rode the bike to his place approx 3 miles away since he didn't have his gear. He gave me 3000 and I gave him the title (still in the previous owners name). So I get a call 2 days later and says that the bike isn't running and is leaking oil everywhere. He then takes it to a shop and the shop says the engine didn't have any gaskets and was tightened so tight just so the oil would not leak. I had NO IDEA of any problems and I rode it fine for 2 weeks. And now he damands his money of 3000 back and he's taking me to court. I have the bill of sale form the previous owner with the date and miles at the time he sold it to me, and I took a picture of the odometer for before I sold the bike to the other person and it shows less than 100 miles put on it and had it less than 2 weeks. I didn't do anything to the motorcycle and had NO IDEA of any problems and now he wants his money back. Does he have a case

I also had another person look at the bike before he did and he was going to buy it and confirm it was in running condition but didn't have any money. I could contact him for a testimony but would that do anything.

I didn't register it in my name because I have another bike was still thinking if I should really have two bikes. I was going to make this one a track bike or a stunt bike and my other bike a daily driver.

Please any advice.

Here is the criagslist post:
I have a 99 Kawasaki zx6r. I bought this bike and used it for two weeks for school then I got another bike. So selling because I have two bikes and no need for two bike and a car so selling cheap. Never had a problem with this bike. Warmed it up and rode to and from class with no problems. This would be a great beginner bike or stunt bike. Super easy to learn on throttle is very forgiving. Previous owner took it in for a full service in long beach at M&C motorcylce shop. And since then I only rode less then 100 miles in two weeks. Cheap insurance, 180 for a year!! Some details about the bike:

REGISTERED till may 2009
Title in hand
Runs great no problems
Runs strong
Good beginner bike
Fairings have NO scratches and are in good condition
Painted matte black
Frame is painted glossy black
New windscreen
Included new sliders
All stock parts
Never raced or stunted
Has 37k miles
Still meaty tires
Cheap insurance
Straight frame
Used for only two weeks going to and from school
Easy to learn on
RECENTLY SERVICED IN at m&c motorcycle shop

Well if there was a problem then how could three people who observed it thoroughly miss it? Its now his bike isn't it? He looked at it and said that there was absolutely no problem with it, as well as another person who wanted 2 buy it. Do you still have that $3000? If he does take you to court, you need those people who checked the bike as well as the shop keeper who said it did have a problem. I don't know, it sounds like the guy who bought it off you tried to do something and ended up doing some damage and tried to cover it up by saying it was your fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pimp_mah_alpaka

Well if there was a problem then how could three people who observed it thoroughly miss it? Its now his bike isn't it? He looked at it and said that there was absolutly no problem with it, as well as another person who wanted 2 buy it. Do you still have that $3000? If he does take you to court, you need those people who checked the bike as well as the shop keeper who said it did have a problem. I don't know, it sounds like the guy who bought it off you tried to do something and ended up doing some damage and tried to cover it up by saying it was your fault.

Yea like I said bike ran fine when I had it I rode it to school and everything. I even rode it to his house. I have bill of sale from the last owner with the miles of the odometer. The new owner took it to a motorcycle shop and he said the gaskets were missing but I don't have the know how to even do that. I only had the bike for 2 weeks and less than 100 miles and had no idea of any of the problems.

Most private sales are considered AS IS unless otherwise stated. He would have to prove you were aware of the problems when you put it up for sale.

I think you have sufficient proof that you rode the bike without problems. The only thing against you is that you resold it after 2 weeks.

I say let him take you to small claims court and try to prove you knew of the problems.

Two questions: do you have proof that it was serviced at that bike shop? And... can you sell a bike without getting the title in your name? (I'm not clear on this one... I know you can't legally sell a motor vehicle if you don't have the title, but it sounds like you do but just didn't put it in your name. So I'm not sure if that's a legal out for him or not.)

This sounds fishy to me. If a bike didn't have gaskets, it's going to leak; I don't care how tight you tighten the bolts. And if you overtighten the bolts, they're going to snap off.

I would get a notarized statement from M&C Motorcycle Shop which states that when you had the vehicle in by them, it wasn't leaking oil nor were there any "missing" gaskets; then let him sue you and take that letter into court. It's going to be hard to argue with that.

Also, how did he pay you for the bike? By cash or check? If he has no proof that he actually purchased the bike from you, seeing as it was never in your name, then he can't sue you.

Assuming you did the actual sale properly, you had him sign a statement that the sale was "as is" if not various states have their own laws as to used vechilces sales.

But the buyer also has a obligation to get the bike checked out by a mechanic of his choice and to test drive it.

But yes you need to get statements from the shops that looked at it, and most likely even have them in person as witness if they sue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Assuming you did the actual sale properly, you had him sign a statement that the sale was "as is" if not various states have thier own laws as to used vechilces sales.

But the buyer also has a obligation to get the bike checked out by a mechanic of his choice and to test drive it.

But yes you need to get statements from the shops that looked at it, and most likely even have them in person as witness if they sue.

That's what I thought. Once sold its considered as is unless I said there was a warranty which I didn't. I need to call the guy the previously owned it and see if it actually got serivced there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by froggy7

Two questions: do you have proof that it was serviced at that bike shop? And... can you sell a bike without getting the title in your name? (I'm not clear on this one... I know you can't legally sell a motor vehicle if you don't have the title, but it sounds like you do but just didn't put it in your name. So I'm not sure if that's a legal out for him or not.)

Right now I don't have proof that it got serviced. The only thing I have is a bill of sale saying the previous owner had taken it in and that's what I was going by. It ran fine when I had it. Yea I did have the title and it was signed off by the previous owner. I just didn't register it in my name because I was still thinking if I wanted to turn my bike into a track or stunt or either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottGem

Most private sales are considered AS IS unless otherwise stated. He would have to prove you were aware of the problems when you put it up for sale.

I think you have sufficient proof that you rode the bike without problems. The only thing against you is that you resold it after 2 weeks.

I say let him take you to small claims court and try to prove you knew of the problems.

I really didn't even know any problems with the bike. I wouldn't know any of that stuff. I still haven't even change the oil in my bike yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by this8384

I would get a notarized statement from M&C Motorcycle Shop which states that when you had the vehicle in by them, it wasn't leaking oil nor were there any "missing" gaskets; then let him sue you and take that letter into court. It's going to be hard to argue with that.

Also, how did he pay you for the bike? By cash or check? If he has no proof that he actually purchased the bike from you, seeing as it was never in your name, then he can't sue you.

Yea right now I'm going by from the previous owners word that he took it to the shop. I'm going make sure later this week. But if there isn't any paper work what can I do. All I have is the bill of sale saying he took it in. and it ran fine at the time so I didn't double check to see if it was serviced.

It was paid by cash. And there was nothing signed or anything by either parties proving that he purchased the bike from me. He gave me cash and I gave him the title. So is there any law or anything saying he can't sue me since there was no proof. Its pretty obvious that the transaction was carried out.

Thanks again everyone for the advice keep them coming really need help. I don't want to get screwed for something I didn't do.

It seems like everyone has given you very sound advice thus far. If you can't get a copy of the paperwork showing that the bike was serviced, you could at least get a signed statement from a few different bike shops stating that you can't simply remove the gaskets and tighten up bolts to keep it from leaking oil.

Has the purchaser actually filed a lawsuit against you or has he merely threatened to do so? If he hasn't actually done anything yet, I'd leave it alone. Don't call him, don't e-mail him, don't write to him. If he calls you, you can be civil with him but don't admit to anything.

I'm not sure there's a law that says he can or can't sue you, but it's going to be mighty hard to prove you actually sold him the bike, seeing as he paid in cash, you never signed anything, he never signed anything and your name wasn't on the title.

Quote:

Originally Posted by this8384

It seems like everyone has given you very sound advice thus far. If you can't get a copy of the paperwork showing that the bike was serviced, you could at least get a signed statement from a few different bike shops stating that you can't simply remove the gaskets and tighten up bolts to keep it from leaking oil.

Has the purchaser actually filed a lawsuit against you or has he merely threatened to do so? If he hasn't actually done anything yet, I'd leave it alone. Don't call him, don't e-mail him, don't write to him. If he calls you, you can be civil with him but don't admit to anything.

Yea he's been calling me but haven't called him back. I called him a while back and said that I would get back to him to settle on something but I haven't called him back. He left a message saying that if I don't call him back by this coming Friday then he will go to court and file a suit. So now just waiting for the summons in the mail. And getting advice to get ready.

Quote:

Originally Posted by this8384

I'm not sure there's a law that says he can or can't sue you, but it's going to be mighty hard to prove you actually sold him the bike, seeing as he paid in cash, you never signed anything, he never signed anything and your name wasn't on the title.

The only thing is that he has the bike and the title in his hand and have text messages saying that he will buy the bike. Proving that I sold him the bike would be easy and I can not admit to that because then I would have to prove that he didn't sell me the bike which would be harder than proving that I didn't do the damage.