Hello:

For once, I don't want to talk about the issues that disconnect us. We KNOW what THOSE are. I want to talk about the disconnect itself.

Why is it happening? I see it from ALL sides - the willingness to lie about the other side and/or the willingness to lie about YOUR side. Before the divide became an ocean, I believed that each side BELIEVED what it was saying. The differences weren't so drastic, so it was easy to believe that someone wanted the same thing as you did, but just had a different approach. Nobody thought anyone would lie in order to get it.

However today, I can't believe that people actually believe what they're saying. I DO believe that they BELIEVE in the importance of their QUEST - just not in the little things they SAY to obtain it. So, they're able to overlook those kinds of things. When its pointed out, as a defense, they correctly point out the other sides lies too.

Now, if any of you come here to tell me YOUR side tells the truth, but the other one doesn't - don't bother - cause I'll give you my famous bwa, ha ha ha.

Want to solve the disconnect?? Let's talk. Want to continue it?? Go away.

excon

Admirable goal, Ex. I have watched the divide widen for years and see no hope of it lessening. The philosophies are just too contridictory. There was a time I might have been able to support a Democrat. Actually I did. George Wallace was a democrat and doing pretty well until a (paid?) gunman put him out of the race.

As it is, you may feel like that guy Don (?) tilting at windmills. (Yeah, I can pronunce it, I just can't spell it!)

Don Quixhote
It's the first step, admit the problem.
Pathological liars do not admit the problem.
Narcissistic people do admit the problem, but feel it is someone else's fault.
Just listen to other people, is a big part of it. Most of us go through life on cruise control, not thinking or listening but just thinking about what we are going to say when they get finished talking, because what we have to say is much more important, or thinking about what we are going to order for lunch.
So see the person hear the person, don't just assume you know the pewson because you've met someone he reminds you of

Hi Ex,

Two reasons come to mind: 1) The class gap widening, and 2) the monopoly our major two party system has had holding the public hostage every four years.

They tell people what they want to hear, and people want to believe that they are telling the truth.
Myself, I want to believe people are truly good and want to help, that they want to change things. I judge the lesser of the two evils (by my beliefs) and support them all the way. I realize both sides lie. Many people use their beliefs, and/or religious beliefs- the wider peoples beliefs become-the wider the parties become.
Religious divide, Party divide.

It's the dumbing down of America.
So much truth is withheld with so many sources of different versions of the truth according to so many different "experts."
Much of it is mistruth directly from the horses .
Before the computer, we all believed Walter Cronkite and that was that.
Now, we pick the "expert" we are most comfortable with, the truth that sits well with us, and that is the truth.

Information overload.

Humans observe less than 5% of their surroundings.

excon,

I can see a few things that would cause the disconnect.

1) Class issues.

2) The differences between traditional and contemporary values.

3) Differences in personal experience.

4) Educational differences.

5) Cultural differences.

6) Difference in point of view.

I don't think that it is necessarily that one side or the other is lying. For any given issue there can be one or more perceived "truths".

For instance, on illegal immigration, it is true that the illegal immigrants are breaking the law. It is equally true that they are just poor people looking for work to support their families. BOTH are true.

But which of these points of view is more important to us will create the differences between us. And they also create the differences in how we view each other.

As long as people disagree on what is most important from their own personal standpoint, there will be a disconnect.

How we handle that disconnect is what separates civilized people from jerks and idiots.

You and I have been disagreeing for years. I thinks it's been rather friendly... I consider you a friend, anyway. Despite our extreme disconnect on the issues, which neither of us have ever backed away from, we're cool with each other. At least from my POV.

Elliot

I could also see how the US slipping into ignorance would have something to do with it.
Anyone here seen 'Idiocracy'?

Ex it is no secret that I believe the basic ideological divide has always been with the country and except the brief times that there were common interests that united the country ,the national debate has always been contentious. The same party rhetoric about democracy claiming to promote equality and accusing its opponent of supporting privilege that is used today can be found almost verbatum throughout our history..

The country survived it's infancy through a series of very fragile compromises . The lofty goal of nonpartisanship did not survive the 2nd Washington Presidency. By 1800 there was an electoral crisis much worse then experienced in 2000.

Now historically from a social perspective the biggest strains on the country have occurred during times of social and economic upheaval .
It is no coincidence that the compromise that is the fabric of our nation fractured at a time when the country was moving from a mostly agrarian society to industrial .
Another upheaval in the 1930s came real close to tearing the country apart.
You were born and raised after WWII and perhaps only in that time when the nation still generally had a common goal to counter the threat of Soviet expansion [after it had defeated the attepts at world domination by the German and Japanese Axis]was there the kind of unity of purpose that you think should be the norm.

But you were (from what you describe to me at least ) part of the generation that rebelled against it.Did you think that the unity was constructive then ;or did you feel that your voice was not being heard ?

Coincidently from then to today we as a nation have been struggling with how to deal with a post-industrial nation,and an emerging 3rd world economic competition.

Every upheaval like that leaves people behind. There used to be a living for someone who lit the oil lamps on the streets ;who drove the trolley cars in the cities ;who put forged the horse shoes ,the CAD designer. Those jobs are no more . Perhaps we are looking at other professions and trades that will also disappear. These folks vote and the panderers make a good living demagoguing how they intend to protect those jobs ;knowing full well they can't .

The argument between secular "free thinkers " and the " religious "is not something new .It predates the nation. Between 1825 and 1850 it became a clear divide politically and the Whigs and the Democrats squared off over the issue and the issue grew larger with each wave of immigration.

Arguing is good; it can make people think more clearly, and even leads to new ideas.But the divisions are based on deep held ideas of values and the place of the individual in a nation and what are the responsibilies of an individual to the nation or community and visa versa ,what are the nation's and communities obligations to the individual.

Well back in the old days people were pretty shocked that Nixon did what he did. But there has been a loss of innocence, now people suspect the politicians are mostly self serving or up to no good and finding that out for sure doesn't surprise them any more. It's like we don't care if he or she is a dirty rotten rat, as long as he's on our side.
Also the rise of people who make politics their career instead of serving as an honor bestowed on them--like first you tell people your family is from Kennebunkport then you're governor from Texas and also governor of Florida. Or you are first lady of Arkansas then decide to be senator from New York. Like you will pretend to be working for anybody as long as they put cash in your hand, people pretty much think you're a chaemeleon who will do or say anything to get ahead.