So, I recently found out that since we've only lived in this "dream house" for 6 years and not 20 it's not considered an INVESTMENT... here in Montreal!! (What home is not an investment?? ). Here in the darned province, (Quebec) you actually do not make money on your home! So, the agent told me that I'll be lucky to get what I paid for it. In fact I may not even get as muchhhhh!! :mad:( I hate this provinceeee! (I'm just venting here, please don't write me and tell me that I'm rude for talking bad about the province I live in... I'm JUST venting).

The agent said, "How much did you pay for this home"... then she said, "Well, let's see if we can get your money back". She says that she can, but the last house she sold, the asking price did NOT reflect the price the house was actually sold at! I know you don't usually get the asking price, but when you're already pricing it to sell, so the asking price would be bottom dollar, how did they walk away taking a $40,000 loss??

Can you imagine listing your home at $335,000 and then only getting $295,000?? Is that normallllllllllllllllll?? (They PAID $335,000 for their home. One usually asks at least $365,000 so they can protect the fact that they spent as much... so at least you sell your home for the amount you paid, right?? ). Only in Quebec does your investment turn to sh*t!! (Oh yea, that's right.. since we've ONLY lived here 6 years it's not an investment, I FORGOT, *I'M CRYING RIGHT NOW!*)

I know for a fact that these people lost money on their home.

I can't afford to lose money... I guess the best I can hope for is to walk away w/ anything... at this point.

THANKS QUEBEC! I guess we've learned not to invest in at all in this province!

I wish we could move... :(

I DON'T REMEMBER WHEN I'VE BEEN SO INSULTED AND FELT SO TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF:(

You know, I have never really thought of the housing markets outside of the States. The housing market here - stinks right now. People are losing money on their homes every where.

We tried to sell our home a couple of years ago - right when the decline was starting. It sat on the market for over a year and half. No offers. We even dropped the price over $20K - which was $3K below the appraisal price.
I feel your pain.
We finally took it off the market and if we tried to sell it now (after owning it for over 10 years) we would have a hard time even getting what we owe for it.

That's is true. I live in a private house and I love it. My landlord is a cop outside NYC and was considering purchasing a house in the county that he works and sell the house me and another family live in. After a few months he advised us that he wasn't going sell because he wouldn't get what he wants and don't want to take the lost. He also said maybe in 2 or 3 years, if the economy picks up he'll and even if it doesn't he going sell. Once he told me about him wanted to sell I started searching for another place but don't want to move until next year. I found a house that I want to rent and it won't be available to next Feb. which works out fine for me. That's is messed up with your being told and I would be upset too but don't let it get you down.

Real Estate IS an investment, but like most investments there is a risk. While real estate generally appreciates, there are market fluctuations that can affect value, especially in the short term.

I've had my home for just over 20 years. Its currently worth (realistically) about twice what I paid for it. However, 4 or 5 years ago it was worth almost 3x what I paid for it.

If you weren't aware of the risk factor of buying real estate, then you didn't do your homework before buying.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Real Estate IS an investment, but like most investments there is a risk. While real estate generally appreciates, there are market fluctuations that can affect value, especially in the short term.

I've had my home for just over 20 years. Its currently worth (realistically) about twice what I paid for it. However, 4 or 5 years ago it was worth almost 3x what I paid for it.

If you weren't aware of the risk factor of buying real estate, then you didn't do your homework before buying.

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- And people always forget that it costs money to buy and sell - Attorneys fees, filing fees, taxes in one form or another.

That comes off the top.

And, yes, the real estate market has simply bottomed out, same as the stock market. Worse yet - nothing seems to be appreciating.

It is common in the US, for many homes to be foreclosed by the banks because people can no longer sell them for what they are worth, there are 1000's each week if not each day that this happens to.

In addition to this, what happens is there are short sales where the seller sells it for less and the bank has to take a loss on it.

Well, we did know going in that since we are in this province we will never make a huge profit.

Since Canada neighbors the U.S. it's not surprising that if the market is soft there then it usually translates into much the same kind of run off here...

Our focus is to not lose money... (of course).

We are not in a race to sell, we'll wait till things pick up... as a few of you said.. the market fluctuates...

(Scottgem, my goodness... never make blanket statements, assuming we don't know about real estate when you don't know ANYTHING ABOUT US, might just cost you your reputation (and that would be literally!)... Try not to sound judgemental. It doesn't become an "expert". FYI, we certainly did do our homework. Perhaps you might consider being more respectful... all you have on this site are the words you try to convey. Perhaps I need to assume you never graduated high school as your inability to express yourself in a forum where words are all you've got... lacks the educated approach, not to mention the respectful... but I won't assume that. I'll just assume that your words translated w/ more assumption than you intended. Okay?)

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Originally Posted by SweetDee

(Scottgem, my goodness...never make blanket statements, assuming we don't know about real estate when you don't know ANYTHING ABOUT US, might just cost you your reputation (and that would be literally!)... Try not to sound judgemental. It doesn't become an "expert". FYI, we certainly did do our homework. Perhaps you might consider being more respectful...all you have on this site are the words you try to convey. Perhaps I need to assume you never graduated high school as your inability to express yourself in a forum where words are all you've got...lacks the educated approach, not to mention the respectful...but I won't assume that. I'll just assume that your words translated w/ more assumption than you intended. Okay?)

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SweetDee, I consider us to be "on line friends" - and if friends don't bring each other up short, who will?

I think you're way out of line here. Your "need to assume you never graduated high school" statement is not only an insulting, cheap shot but it's really beneath you. And as far as your assumptions - you know what happens when you assume?

I'm surprised.

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Originally Posted by SweetDee

(Scottgem, my goodness...never make blanket statements, assuming we don't know about real estate when you don't know ANYTHING ABOUT US,

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SweetDee,
I was tempted to just remove that whole aside because a) it violates our rules and b) its so far offbase, its borders on ridiculous. But I decided to answer it instead.

Lets look at the facts. You posted a note in which you are complaining that your home has not appreciated in value after 6 years. From what YOU posted it appears you were not aware that real estate doesn't automatically rise in value.

I responded to that post explaining that real estate is specualtive and generally a good investment, citing my own experience. I then added a statement that saying IF you weren't aware of the risks you didn't do your homework. I stand by that statement.

Now you responded with a diatribe about that statement. I didn't assume anything, I responded based on what YOU posted. I also qualified that response with the IF because I don't know you or what research you did.
I was not disrespectful, I simply responded to what you posted. As for my abilitiy to express myself, I stand on my record here and on other sites over 20 years of helping out oin Q&A sites such as these. I think the vast majority of the people I've helped over the years would strongly disagree with your characterization.

You were way out of line here and I think an apology from you is in order.

I guess I really "got your goat" so answering me became a MUST... lol.

My shock about my scenario was really based on how we stand to LOSE money and hope to not walk away taking a loss. I originally stated that I was "venting"... (are you man? Men have trouble understand the act of letting a woman vent.. ). As well as the kind of home we have and the property, it would shock ANYONE not to make a profit.. but you can't see this house.. so, it's hard to express (plus it would take too long).

Again, we did know the risk and we did do our homework. I'm still not understanding that comment as anything less that judgment.

I have as well been involved w/ many a Q&A type sites spanning over 20 years... so we have that in common.

I apologize that I upset you. I did feel judged and for some reason I could not let that become my experience here w/ this question... it seemed after your response, since you are so well respected, it offered people a point of view that was not true... and maybe they would not think I was a person whom jumps into major purchases w/out doing some home research or homework.

Once you judge someone the words are out there... often taking a life form of it's own.

I see you did not intend this... but it still was put "out there"...

Again, I apologize. Take good care.

One of the motivating factors in my acquiring a real estate license was that I was tired of paying thousands of dollars in fees to someone else when we sold a house. I still have to pay the broker, but I have more control and don't lose as much money in the transaction. I keep it in an inactive status most of the time and only become active when we are interested in buying or selling (which won't be any time soon!)

I like the way Scottgem says things straight out and I tend to do the same thing (and have been called rude more than once), but with a forum like this responses sometimes sound harsh or rude because there is no human interaction to soften the delivery.

Vent all you need - there's nothing scarier than thinking you house is worse less than you paid for it.

No you didn't "get my goat". I've developed a rather thick skin over the years. One has to when participating in sites like this. What prompted me to respond was the gross over-reaction to my comment.

As Emland said, I tend to respond straight from the hip. I don't mince words and call them as I see them (enough clichés :) ). It is possible that may go overboard and if I do I apologize. But this was not the case here.

I looked specifically at this statement:
"Can you imagine listing your home at $335,000 and then only getting $295,000??????? Is that normallllllllllllllllll???????????????? " Because that indicated you MIGHT not have been aware of how the real estate market works.

If you had just responded with something like; "yes we did our homework, but this still shocked us and I needed to vent." That would have have saved whatever face you might have lost by my comment. Instead you reacted with a personal attack against me.

But I see that you now understand the scope and intent of my comment and that you did over-react, so apology accepted and matter dropped.

Judykaytee, you are right, and I'll give you a rep the second I'm done responding... I'm sensitive over this subject because I'm upset... I'm sure you understand.

I already apologized to Scottsgem twice as requested. Quite frankly when I wrote the last response I was pressed for time (my agent was ringing the doorbell), so I fudged my numbers on the thousands I was trying to give an example with... PLUS I'm challenged w/ numbers as it is... I'm really actually trying to keep the amount my home is worth to myself... Sorry about my mistake. I think you're point was right.

Let me just end this bickering by saying I REALLY AM SORRY... it's a sensitive subject for me and if you all recall I did say in the original post that I was "venting"... meaning freaking out...

Also, the market in Canada is incomparible to the market in the states... our banking is not at all the same and something we can relate to no matter how "crashed" your market is... U.S. doesn't affect us... so I should have asked for advice strickly from Canadians... (I forgot if Scottsgem is Cdn?).

Again I apologize...

Anyhow, moving on... I found out that my house will not lose money and that the first agents were mistaken. I'll post the details in another reply, I just want Scottsgem to feel the full effect of an apology... and then I'll go into it a little later.

Sorry and bye for now.

Okay, so I have some more info...

I found out that the original agents had a bad reputation for "low balling"... and I gave my best friend the HEIGHT of sh*t for recommending them to us! She never used them NOR did she ever know anyone who did... so I asked her WHY would you recommend them to us when you don't know how they work or even their reputation? She apologized and admitted she made a mistake. She thought they might be good agents because she used to see them frequently in her outer social circle... OMG! I was so surprised w/ my friend. She didn't mean to hurt me, but indirectly she did... I trusted her... (it almost feels like she put me harms way... she knows how I do not deep down want to move... ). Anyhow, FORGIVNESS is my motto!

I have had several agents touring my home and coming back to us w/ a marketing and statisitics strategy and I see that our home will NOT lose money... it won't make much either:(.

I was just so panicky that it would lose money it felt like my head would exlode in worry...

I maintain that it ROYALLY sucks to build a home in this province, however I have no regrets as I have enjoyed every moment here thus far...

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Originally Posted by SweetDee

Judykaytee, you are right, and I'll give you a rep the second I'm done responding...I'm sensitive over this subject because I'm upset... I'm sure you understand.

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No problem at all - I always figure people on the board don't have to agree, they just have to hear each other, which you and I did.

(No, Scott isn't Canadian.)

Judykaytee, I still cannot rep you... I'll not give up...

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

You know, I have never really thought of the housing markets outside of the States. The housing market here - stinks right now. People are losing money on their homes every where.

We tried to sell our home a couple of years ago - right when the decline was starting. It sat on the market for over a year and half. No offers. We even dropped the price over $20K - which was $3K below the appraisal price.
I feel your pain.
We finally took it off the market and if we tried to sell it now (after owning it for over 10 years) we would have a hard time even getting what we owe for it.

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NowWhat, you stated that "We even dropped the price over $20K - which was $3K below the appraisal price."

The issue here is that you were 17k over the value that the bank will lend a borrower for the home. Bottom line is that IF you must sell the other comparable active homes are your competition and the SOLD homes are a representation of what the buyers in the market are willing to pay. The SOLD homes are also what the bank bases the appraisel. Being 17k over the appraised value anytime since say... 2006 would potentially cause a home from getting offers and finally selling. Some people like to play the negotiation game by listing high and having a buyer come in low, but the *ready, willing and able buyer* will be looking at properties that match your condition yet have a lower price.

I am telling you this because I sell homes for a living (around 2 deals a month) and the number one issue with a home staying on the market is incorrect pricing. If a home does not move quickly there needs to be an adjustment in price.

Here is how buyer showings work.

-if you get no traffic, price could be high or it might not getting the same exposure as the other properties
- if you get lots of traffic, but no offers it could be that the price is right for that type of property in that particular area, but the house does not substantiate the price when compared to other homes in the area.

I don't know how your first agent was picked. Often times agents are picked by default. An agent is often picked by newspaper advertisement, flyer, calling a local office. In the future, when hiring an agent there is nothing wrong with interviewing 2 or 3 to make a solid decision.


(when you go back on the market) Good luck to you the 2nd time around!

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Originally Posted by jimmynoble12

NowWhat, you stated that "We even dropped the price over $20K - which was $3K below the appraisal price."

The issue here is that you were 17k over the value that the bank will lend a borrower for the home. Bottom line is that IF you must sell the other comparable active homes are your competition and the SOLD homes are a representation of what the buyers in the market are willing to pay. The SOLD homes are also what the bank bases the appraisel. Being 17k over the appraised value anytime since say.....2006 would potentially cause a home from getting offers and finally selling.

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I guess I should have mentioned that my appraisal was not current at that time. It was an appraisal done 3 years prior to listing and prior to major improvements (like siding, brand new roof, furnace, etc.) Plus a home sold for $40k more than our appraised value after the appraisal and it sat right across the street. So we didn't mark up the price - we did our homework on current market values and listed accordingly.

But, I do get what you are saying