If the SON and the FATHER are one and the same, yet different (a concept which I am still not able to understand fully), whom do we pray to.
Should I pray to Jesus? Or, should I pray to a Christian God?
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If the SON and the FATHER are one and the same, yet different (a concept which I am still not able to understand fully), whom do we pray to.
Should I pray to Jesus? Or, should I pray to a Christian God?
You pray to God * the Father, as Jesus hisself taugh us to pray and
( depending on your desired use of terms) either in Jesus Name, or though Jesus.
Yes, you pray to the father, as jesus did. God knows your heart:
Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee.
Mat 6:7 And in praying use not vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Mat 6:8 Be not therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
That question does puzzle me a bit, but I think that when you are praying to God, you are also praying to Jesus. Though Jesus is considered the son of Christ, I believe that if you're addressing either God or Jesus in a prayer, you are addressing them both as one... you understand what I mean? I hope that helped a bit. Have a wonderful day!
<3 kt
John 16:23-24
23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
(KJV)
No one does. It's a mystery how that works.Quote:
Originally Posted by carla123
I think it is proper to pray to the Father in Jesus name, however I pray to the Lord Jesus all the time. (it works that way too) ;)
It really is not difficult when you understand how they are one. A good example is a marriage. Is not a husband and wife said to be one? Do not the three musketeers say "all for one and one for all?" God the Father and Christ the Son are one in agreement, objective and purpose. Like father like son. Christ thinks, feels and acts as his Father does. Thus they are one. So they are two distict persons with the same ideals. That being said, Jesus and God says we should pray to God as our Heavenly Father.
Hmmmm? Nope they are exactly the same person in a different form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriarch
Think about it, a person cannot be his own father and his own son at the same time. If they were the same person Jesus would not have said "my father is greater than I am".-John 14:28 This shows that jesus is not the father but has a father and that his father is "greater" than he is. If they were the same person they would be equal not different.
Besides the material universe, let alone the earth, cannot contain God. Thus king Solomon said "the heaven (the sky) and heaven of heavens (outer space or the material universe) cannot contain thee".- 1 Kings 8:27 thus the universe cannot hold or house God and yet Jesus lived on earth. Again it shows that they are two individuals not one with some abnormal split personality as some misinformed people suggest. God is more massive than the material universe and too powerful to live within it. He does not have to leave the spirit realm but he does send his angelic sons to earth and he sent Jesus to us as well. It seems that when angels enter into our material dimension they reduce themselves in size.
Patriarch, some people don't want to take away from the divinity of jesus, by saying he isn't equal with god. I think it's in the way we ourselves think god should be. I don't think we have enough knowledge about god to make a conclusion. But, we can surmise that with the holy spirit working through flesh, god can do anything he wants. Jesus was the only accepted sacrifice for our sins. Jesus said he was before abraham. Jesus walked on water. Jesus was born of a virgin. And most importantly to us, jesus said he was the way to god. So his divinity is complete, and we should have faith that it is.
Patriarch,
I beg to differ. Jesus also said, I and my father are one... he said if you have seen me you've seen the father. I don't have to THINK about it... my mind is NOT like God's mind. I don't understand it but I believe it. The three are one of the same in different forms. MY MIND says there is no way... but GOD is bigger than us.
A husband and wife is said to be one as well, but they are not the same person. This is similar to how God and Jesus are one.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
I do know that Jesus is divine, just as angels are divine, but being divine does not make one equal to God. Angels are spirits and God is a Spirit but that in itself does not make them equal. Just as one man is just as another man but that does not make them the same person.Quote:
Originally Posted by cogs
No? What does it make Jesus then? Equal to Ganesh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriarch
Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
I agree they are one in being in harmony and agreement, having the same purpose in mind. They are in separate forms because one is the Father of the other and the other is the son of the Father. It really is simple logic, we see this all around us in humans. We are like God being made in his image. Just as a man can procreate a son from himself so has God. God did not make the universe for him to enter into it, for there is no reason for him to.
Colossians 1:13 "his dear Son" Jesus is God's Son not God himself
Colossians 1:15 "image of...God" Jesus is in God's image not the actual God
John 3:16 "God...gave his...Son" God gave his Son not himself
John 10:33 "maketh thyself God" The Jews mistakenly thought Jesus
Claimed to be God
John 10:36 "I am the Son of God" Jesus did not nor has he ever claimed to
Be God
John 1:18 "no man has seen God" No person has ever seen God but
They have seen Jesus
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three distinct Persons in one Godhead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriarch
Think of an apple -- apple skin, apple flesh, apple core -- three distinct and recognizable entities in one substance, an apple. An apple skin is different from apple flesh is different from an apple core, yet all three have "appleness."
Think of me. I am a daughter, a mother, and a wife. All are under one "umbrella," Wondergirl, but each one acts differently because of the role that is played. I act differently as a daughter from how I act as a mother and those two are different from how I act as a wife.
No, the Trinity is not explained by logic. We can try to use common ideas to explain how all three Persons of the Trinity are God, but it is not logical or even humanly understandable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriarch
Yes, he has. John 10:30 -- "I and the Father are One."Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriarch
Yes. Check the OT stories. Moses' hair turned white because of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriarch
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