I am considering the purchase of a backup generator. My main objectives are to support the sump pump and possibly refrigerator. Our power sometimes does go out but usually for no more than an hour or two in a storm. The power company is pretty quick to get us back up and running. Howvever, an hour is a long time to spend filling five gallon buckets of water out of the sump pit and hauling them all the way upsatirs and out the back door! I do have a backup pump on the pit but in heavy rain it simply cannot keep up! And if we are out of town on a weekend when it goes out I don't see my mom being able, or wanting, to do this for us! I have sort of shopped around and my question is... Do I purchase one that would accommodate the sump and fridge that I would have to manually operate for about $600.00 or go with a permanent install for much more. If I went with the more expensive "whole house" type what is involved in installation and maintanence. I am in Indiana if that makes a difference. Thanks!

Maintainenece can't be addressed unless you know the fuel of the standby generator that you might be considering: e.g. propane, natural gas, diesel, gasoline, dual fuel:propane/gasoline.

Natural gas and propane are the simplest. If automatic, the exercising takes place automatically. So it's exercising and oil changing for the simplest case.

For automatic operation the system either needs to be sized for the entire house or some mechanism of load-shedding to remove loads like the AC unit when backup is required.

Usually a critical load panel is used although it's not entirely necessary.

The absolute simplest way to provide backup power is to outfit your panel with interlocking breakers (interlock kit) that will not allow the main and the generator breaker to be on at the same time. This is a manual method.

There are small sheds that will accommodate a portable generator, provide cooling and ventilation.

Backup time: 1 hr
Available fuel sources: ?
Automatic: maybe
Electric start: ?
Stationary/Portable: ?
(portable generators can be set in a stationary mode)

How much effort are you willing to put into the backup system? Test it twice a month. Add fuel stabilizer. Dig it out of the garage. etc.

At this point all I see a need for is a prtable propane generator that could sit on the screened in back porch. What I don't want to do is purchase this type and have the power go out for several days. We have lived here almost 10 years and have had to bail out only twice, although we have had other close calls. From your answer I am thinking I could get by with a unit that would support just the sump and possibly fridge. Thanks!

If I would decide to install the interlocking breakers and do a permanent install whole house natural gas unit, do I need a plumber, elecrtrician, or both. Also, could I install this on the cement slab of the porch so I don't have to pour a new pad?

You said that you have a back up sump pump. Does that mean an extra pump or does it mean battery back up power to your sump. Unless it means battery back up power I suggest that you invest in a battery back up for your sump pump.

No, you mom isn't going to want to come over during a storm and bail your sump. Nor is she going to want to come over, drag out a generator, hook it up and start it. To have automatic switching the generator must also have automatic starting. These features are usually confined to larger generators, permanently installed, and usually run on either natural or propane gas.

If one pump can't keep up during a heavy rain maybe you should consider an additional pump. It may be possible to sit this pump in the same pit, elevated to a higher level than the first, to kick in when the first is over whelmed.

I do have a battery back up for when the power goes out. It sometimes cannot keep up. My main pump functions fine even with heavy rain. It is if the power goes out and the battery back up cannot keep up that is making me consider a generator. I believe I could set this up so it would not be too inconvenient to hook up the main pump to the generator in an outage.

Think of generators as a convenience item. Rather something that relieves an inconvenience during power outages.

On the low end are portable generators, which you drag out, start and use with extension cords to support critical appliances during a power outage. These must be run out side of course and cannot be exposed to rain, or must be protected from rain water.

Next step up is to eliminate the use of extension cords by installing a manual switching.
This is done by installing a sub panel, rerouting critical circuits to the sub panel, taking power from the main panel and power from the generator and using interlocking breakers which prevent the generator and the main power being on at the same time. Unless you have a permanent place to sit the generator, you must get it out, plug it up and manually start it.

Next step up is a portable generator with a battery and a starter. You eliminate the manual starting only. You still have the location and weather considerations.

Then you think about automatic switching. The controls and the installation will cost more, much more, than the portable generator, so you begin looking at the small permanent generators. You have to consider fuel source and location. By the way, not a good idea to run portable generator to close to the house because of carbon monoxide.

Now you are looking at a small permanent generator with automatic switching, might as well get one big enough to run a few circuits and buy some convenience. I wouldn't recommend any thing less than 13kw, about $3000 plus installation.

Might as well go for something that will run the A/C at about 16 to 20kw and $5000 plus installation.

For $140 I'd suggest you look into this as your back up. ZOELLER 502-0005 HOMEGUARD BACK-UP SUMP PUMP SYSTEM WATER POWERED I installed one years ago and it works with no battery or electricity as long as you have city water pressure.

Thanks! You are all giving insightfull advice! Keep it coming!

I'm going to have to stop with the Zoeller pump because I think it is the best solution to your type of issue. You could go with a battery backup pump but it will cost more, require maintenance and not last more than a few hours. A generator is unnecessary if you only lose power for a few hours and the hassle of hooking it up, starting and exhausting just isn't worth it in my book.

Ballenger, could I install the Zoeller to work with my battery backup for more supposrt when the power is out? I am concerned that the water pressure back up will not be able to keep up with he flow of water coming into the pit on a heavy rain. This is not just typical rain water that comes in during a storm but I have been told I also have an aquafier that drains in as I always have water coming in wheteher it has rained or not.

That would be putting 3 pumps in one pit and I'm not sure you'll have room. If you can fit them in and keep all floats free of obstructions it should work. Your primary pump float would be set to kick in first, smaller amount of water in the pit. Then the Zoeller would be set just a little higher to kick in if primary failed and your battery backup gets the highest water level setting in the float. To be sure the Zoeller would not be suuficient your need a big storm and a stop watch as well as knowing how many gallons your current pumps puts out per minute in a storm. Compare the gallons per minute with what Zoeller rates their pump at.

How many watts to run whole house

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Originally Posted by gpbonne

how many watts to run whole house

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I don't understand the question.

The whole house requirement is very individualistic and it depands highly if you have an ALL Electric house. An electric range, furnace and central AC are very large loads. MOST might in in the neighborhood of 10-15 kVA, 1 Volt Amp is 1 Watt, 1 HP = 746 watts, but 746 watts in not the amount of power necessary to start a 1 HP motor. K = x 1000.

Your service panel might be 60 A, 100 A, 150 A and 200 A, but you likely won't size a generator at 240 V * 200 A /1000 kVA.

Some may wish to back up their pool and sauna. Some care about AC and you can not use both electric ovens, dishwasher and washer at the same time.

"Whole house" does requires some life style changes. In a house that uses gas or oil, you have to consider the AC and motors such as the sump pump, heater, washer and lights. Your probably not going to be using your woodshop. Nor are you going to care about your pool, jacuzzi or sauna. Your also not going to turn every light on in the entire house.

Really good arguments for whole house backup are: 1) Medical devices such as oxygen generators, 2) Sump pump and 3) Living where you last on the power restore list. Usually it's the most people first. If a transdformer blows in your yard at the same time there is a major outage, your in trouble. The elderly may require AC. Those with a difficulty in breathing may require AC.