My wife and I recently hired a local contractor to do some work on our house,an older ranch built in the 50's.A big part of this project was installation of a new roof,gutters,soffit and fascia.Shortly after this was done we had some rain,so this gave us a chance to check things out.We noticed we had water coming down between the gutter and fascia up and down both sides of the house.When we told the contractor about this he said it was because he hadn't caulked the gutters.Shortly thereafter he came by and applied caulk and said everything should be fixed.After the next rain we still had water coming through between the gutters and fascia in quite a few areas but the volume was not as much.He came by and repeated the procedure and again the volume of water went down but we still had areas dripping on both sides of the house.I wondered why we were having such a problem with leaks as everything was brand new.I got out the ladder went up to take a look at one of the gutters.I could see that there was caulk running on the inside edge of the gutter the entire length of the house.I thought that it was proper to caulk the hangers where the gutter attached to the house,but I didn't know about going down the length of the entire gutter.I stopped in at Lowe's and asked if this was a usual installation procedure and was told that it sounded like someone was trying to cover up a bad job.I got almost an identical answer at the local Home Depot.After researching the problem of water running behind the gutters online,it seems most of the time the trouble is with either how the shingles or drip edge are applied.My shingles do not overhang the drip edge at all so I think that is the cause of my problem.I could find no one that recommended using caulk to fix it,only several people that said not to.Most of the suggestions centered on installing some type of flashing or apron to channel the water properly into the gutter.The contractor and I seem headed for a big dispute over this because I told him the caulk fix was not acceptable to me and he seems to think that if he can get enough caulk onto the gutters to stop most of the leaks he has done his job.I now have two 52 foot seamless gutters complete with a 52 foot long seam of caulk running down each one.I am curious as to what anyone has to say about the quality of this installation and using caulk for a fix.and if anyone has had any experience or other suggestions for making repairs.

Caulk is temporary at best. Properly installed, you should need no caulk except at screws. You need to have either shingles, drip edge, or flashing that overlaps slightly into the guttering.

The other thing to make sure of is that you have enough down-spouts to shed the rain during down-pours. If the guttering fills up, it will pull the guttering loose and cause leaks for sure.

I'm with Al on this, sounds like he did not install a drip edge. How did you pay him, see if you can put a stop on your check because you are getting jerked around by someone who does shoddy work.

Bob,
You give the guy too much credit just calling his work shoddy. This sound like the same roofer we had a while back that almost cover the gutters completely with the roof sheathing and shingles. I guess he went the other way this time.

Mr X,
You don't have a gutter problem. You have a roof and shingle problem. Your roof sheathing should be flush with the fascia board, you should have a drip edge and the shingles should extend about an inch over the edge of the drip edge.

The first row of shingles should actually be two layers. The first layer should turned around backwards such that the solid half is toward the edge. The second layer should be installed normally with the tabs towards the edge. The shingles should be staggered such that the ends of the lower layer are covered by the upper layer. Also the ends of the lower layer should not be at the break in the tabs of the upper layer.

[IMG]http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3...0971sw6.th.jpg[/IMG]

I don't know how this will work out,but I am trying to post some pictures of what was done.The above is a shot taken along the front of the house.

[IMG]http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9...0933ks1.th.jpg[/IMG]

This is a shot of the inside gutter ,showing what was done.

[IMG]http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3...0976nt0.th.jpg[/IMG]

Another shot down the back of the house.

[IMG]http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4...0978im0.th.jpg[/IMG]

A shot from beneath the gutter shows a sampling of what went on.You can see where the water was leaking between the gutter and fascia as the area is marked by water spots.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to post an answer to my questions.I have been researching this problem pretty heavily for the past week or so,and all of the information you each have given me coincides and reinforces the best information that I have been able to find.I guess my wife and I bring this sort of thing upon ourselves by being too trusting.We took everything this guy said at face value and so he must have assumed that anything goes.We were fortunate in the respect that we at least held some of the money back for this job or we would be entirely out of luck.It should be really interesting when he comes back to collect for his "above and beyond" work.

It could just be the angle but your second picture seems to show the drip edge installed upside down. If that's the case no wonder its leaking.

I guess I'm showing some ignorance here, but it looks okay to me, except for the ugly caulk smeared everywhere. You have overlap of the drip rail, etc. The shingles are a little short, but the drip rail will probably cover for that nonetheless. Besides, he really can't be held responsible for the shingles since he only did the guttering.

That being said, I'm wondering if during downpours, the guttering isn't filling up and running back behind the guttering. If some additional downspouts were added, it very well may solve the problem. I'm no expert though. I've done roofing and guttering only a few times over the years. Of course with our torrential downpours in the Tampa area, you sort of learn what works and what doesn't.

The pictures are pretty good when blown up, but it is still a little difficult to tell a whole lot about them.

Maybe some of the other construction guys can give some good input.
Al

Bob,
You know of any downspout specs for a 52' run? I can't tell what size guttering it is either.
Al

Al, we also don't how many down spouts there are. Take a close look at picture #2. I see two surfaces of a drip edge, you should only see one. I think its totally flipped upside down. Those two surfaces should be pointing down not up.

The back edge of the gutter is "glued" to the fascia with caulk down the entire run.This creates a seam that is directly below the drip edge.I think that the drip edge is installed right side up,but as was suggested,because of the angle in the photo above it may be difficult to discern this.Everything of interest in the picture being white doesn't help either.

[IMG]http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/402...0929xb8.th.jpg[/IMG]

Here is another shot that may give a better view.

I some spots the drip edge runs behind the back edge of the gutter with the area in between filled with caulk.

[IMG]http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4...0955aa1.th.jpg[/IMG]

The above photo is an example of this.

The more I look at this stuff the more disgusted I get.I can't believe someone could stand there and tell me with a straight face that they went "above and beyond" with this job.

I think you last picture shows the drip edge sticking out 1.5" from the face of the gutter and about an inch or so below the shingles. If so it is upside down. The drip edge slides directly under the shingle and then stick out 1.5" still touching the underside of the shingle. You can't put a tape measure between the drip edge and the shingles like you are showing. What do you see Al?

Just another note to say that he did the entire job,shingling,fascia.gutters and all.There are plenty of downspouts,one on each corner of the house,and the gutters don't come anywhere near to filling to overflow.

The fact that he did it all must make you very nervous. Did he pull a permit? Did you know whether he was pulling one?

That is very crappy workmanship for sure. The drip edge, looks like he used a snake for a straight edge... not that you should need a straight edge for doing that if you have much of a clue about what you're doing.

Bob, I can't really say for sure. It seems that if the drip edge were turned over the other way that the lip would stick up at the top. But, I'm really trying to figure out what the heck he did. Is there a double drip edge or extra piece of flashing? What is under the drip edge, and overlapping into the guttering.

If the contractor pulled a permit, the inspector could give them some valuable insight and would make the contractor fix it.

Chances are very good that not city inspector looked at this job.

I don't think he got a permit,he didn't think one was needed.What you are seeing in the picture is a place where the drip edge is tighter to the side of the house than the back of the gutter is.You can see the bottom of the drip edge and the top edge of the gutter covered with caulk.The space you see in between the two is the fascia.The gap between the back of the gutter and the fascia is filled with caulking also.Because of this it looks like the fascia rolls over the back of the gutter,but this is not the case.The fascia area is flat.

[IMG]http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/1...0944or5.th.jpg[/IMG]

Here is a picture from another angle.Again,the strip in the middle is the fascia and is flat.It appears to roll into the gutter because of the caulking.

Actually the permit was your responsibility. Some builders will help pull a permit for you but its your job. If you pull a permit there is a fee and the improvement gets reported to your tax assessor so there is a down side. The upside of a permit is the city would not have allowed this guy to walk away without fixing it properly. He knew darn well a permit is needed.

There you go. The guttering needs to be raised up. The back of the guttering needs to go under the drip edge. He should have notched the drip edge where the screws are, so that the guttering would slip up far enough under the drip edge.

There is no way that the fascia should ever be exposed between the guttering and the drip rail.
Al

First photo, shingles look short. Third photo shingles look like they over hang drip edge OK. Are these the same gutter? In first and fifth photo I can't tell if the drip edge is T type edge or if it is just not tight against the fascia. Drip edge should have been nailed to roof sheathing before shingles. Gutters should go up behind drip edge. Drip edge should overlap gutters. Gutters should be up tight to to shingles. Gutters are installed level, you don't try to slope them.

If the shingles don't at least cover the drip edge make him take them up and redo, nail drip edge to roof sheathing only. Put gutter under drip edge and as tight to shingles as possible.

If shingles overlap drip edge, make him pull all the nails where he nailed the drip edge to fascia, get rid of all that caulking and put the edge of the gutter under drip edge. If necessary run gutter mounting screws through drip edge and gutter.

Again gutters go up level, following to the roof line. It ain't rocket science, water flows down hill.

Permit procedures vary. In this area no permit required for gutters. In some places permit require to re-shingle, other not. If home owner pulls permit, home owner calls for inspection, home owner responsible for deficiencies. I contractor pulls permit, contractor calls and is responsible for deficiencies.

Hello there,
It sounds like to me the water is coming down between the gutter and the fascia board.
In the picture above the one where you are measuring the size of the gutter it is plain to see that the "starter"shingles do not extend far enough past the edge of the gutter.
If this process was done correctly, you would not even need a drip edge. (Well here in CA where I build houses and do remodeling we never use a drip edge) on new construction.
The gutter used should have a lip on it that lays over the first piece of roof sheeting or overhang. The roofing paper completely covers that lip. Then the roofing material should project into/over the gutter at least half an inch.
This creates a water tight seal.
If any water some how blew up under the roofing material by some horrible wind, the water would still stay on top of the roofing paper, run down the paper and into the gutter.
As long as the roofing paper was laying over the top of the lip of the gutter.
From what I have read with regards to your question, you have water getting in around the leading edge of your shingles, and the paper/starter shingles are not installed correctly.