Ok I have another question since according to the Holy Bible the Dead are Supposed to be asleep until the 2nd coming of Christ, then how is it that a lot of people, especially children are seeing Ghosts ? And some people are even having Conversations with these so called apparitions ? There has been just too many cases I am hearing about seeings Ghosts of the Dearly departed, for it to be a hoax, lie, hallucination or such. Some people may make up a story just to be saying something, but there has to be some amount of truth in some of those cases especially with kids, as they have nothing to gain by making that up. They have seen their Dead Grandfather, or Dead parent or some other relative who has passed on.

Also there are many books out that are Non-Fiction that claim to Actual hauntings of places where things have happened, especially I am hearing that there are a lot of churches that people have seen ghosts and some of them are in manhattan here in NYC.
So some of them may be saying it just for publicity, but others have to be real as all of them can't be a lie. Behind every tale or legend there is a basis in reality to it.
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Satan and his demons have been thrown out of heaven (Rev 12:9) and it states here that he is misleading the entire inhabited earth. By various methods, the demons fool many into thinking the dead can haunt us. Divination for example. Some are "comforted" by the thought that their loved ones are still watching over them. The demons are powerful and cunning enough to imitate voices and appear as apparitions as 2 Corinthians 11:14,15 reveals "And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works."

So yes, many do experience actual "hauntings" but according to the bible, they are none other than wicked spirits/angels.

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Originally Posted by Moparbyfar

Satan and his demons have been thrown out of heaven (Rev 12:9) and it states here that he is misleading the entire inhabited earth. By various methods, the demons fool many into thinking the dead can haunt us. Divination for example. Some are "comforted" by the thought that their loved ones are still watching over them. The demons are powerful and cunning enough to imitate voices and appear as apparitions as 2 Corinthians 11:14,15 reveals "And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works."

So yes, many do experience actual "hauntings" but according to the bible, they are none other than wicked spirits/angels.

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There was an instant when many many years ago, when both of my parents were alive, one day my mother had went out for her usual walk, and she was almost instantly killed.
As she was walking something fell off the roof top of a building, it almost got her, but missed her by a few inches. When she looked up she saw the apparation of my Fathers Dead Sister " Viola " , and she believed that it was Viola who Saved her, because it was strange just at that moment happened her appartation appeared. And my mother was never one for seeing these things. My mother never even believed in stuff like that.

Another time my father was in the hospital for phenomia they thought he was not going to make it, he had a dream about his dead Sisters Viola and Ida, and they told him you have to go back, Millie and Donna still need you. And he woke up, and recovered from his Phenomia and the Doctors were amazed, as my faher had a heart condition and Diabetes and they were just surprised he survived. And he was around age 70 at that time. Anyway dreams are just dreams people say that they come from the sub-conscious mind. But some dreams are more than just dreams, such as the dead visiting us in dreams.

My Dad has came to me over the years in Dreams, and I spoke to him as he were Dead.
He told me he cannot come to me every time I call him, but that in heaven he was very busy. Another time, my fathers sister in law , also saw him in a dream he was all dressed in white, and he said can I call for your mother now? She say yes thinking he meant to call her on the phone. Well guess what next day her mother was Dead.

Today my Aunt called me and told me she saw my mother in a Dream, and was looking so pretty and young and her hair was looking so beautiful, my mother died on July 25th.
She has not came to any of my dreams as yet, but my aunt her sister saw her.

Yes Demons do exist, they can perform miracles that would deceive our eyes, you are right. But I can't say that in all cases are Demons , especially where children are speaking
To their Dead grandfather, as my aunts grandchildren still see Lewis watching them. More and more Children can see Ghosts. And children have no reason to lie and make it up,
Demons, perhaps? But not in all cases. If God permits the Spirit to come back to the living for whatever reason, he can do that but only though the permission of God does that happen. But my point is not all hauntings are Demonic in origion.

To demons and Satan, it doesn't matter if they're adults or children. They will influence whoever they choose to and with children, it's even easier because they are inexperienced and easily misled or frightened. Satan will get at us no matter how old we are as long as the truth from God's word doesn't come through. That is his main objective.
It is natural that we miss our loved ones passed away, and if the demons can pretend to be them in a dream or talk to us to deceive us from what is true then that is what they'll do. The only thing that can stop them is our faith and integrity to the true God and belief that he will eventually destroy them.
They seem to be very clever at causing confusion among so many, distracting from the actual truths in the bible and the important message of peace and happiness soon to be realised by way of God's kingdom.

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Originally Posted by Moparbyfar

To demons and Satan, it doesn't matter if they're adults or children. They will influence whoever they choose to and with children, it's even easier because they are inexperienced and easily misled or frightened. Satan will get at us no matter how old we are as long as the truth from God's word doesn't come thru. That is his main objective.
It is natural that we miss our loved ones passed away, and if the demons can pretend to be them in a dream or talk to us to deceive us from what is true then that is what they'll do. The only thing that can stop them is our faith and integrity to the true God and belief that he will eventually destroy them.
They seem to be very clever at causing confusion among so many, distracting from the actual truths in the bible and the important message of peace and happiness soon to be realised by way of God's kingdom.

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A perfect example of a ghost that came fourth was in " 1 Samuel 28 verses 7 to 19 when Saul went to Endor to contact Samuels ghost and the Medium called him foruth and she saw the Ghost of Samuel coming up, and Samuel was angry that he was disturbed from his rest and clearly stated " why have you disturbed me by bringing me up ". And the Holy
bible clearly states that it was Samuels Ghost, and did not mention anything about a Demon.

Actually Some Spiritual Mediums can call fourth the Dead, not all though many are just fakes. But as we see in Samuel and Saul it was very possible, and the same way Samuels Ghost came fourth other ghosts can as well.

And another example of the Dead being Conscious is in Luke 16 verses 19 to 31. About Lazarus and the rich man. It clearly states how both Lazarus and the rich man died, Lazarus was carried off by angels to Abrahams Bosom, and the rich man was buried and in Hades was in torment. He saw Abraham in a far away cornor with Lazarus in his bosom and asked if Lazarus can just dip his finger in water to just touch the tip of his tongue. But Abraham told him, in your life you had your good things, but Lazarus received Evil things, he is being comforted but you are in torment. Besides there is a Chasm between us that no one from our side can go to you, and no one from your side can come to us. So then the rich man begged Abraham if he could go to his house and warn his brothers to repent so they don't come to this place of torment. Abraham said if they do not hear Moses and the Prophets they would not believe if someone from the Dead came to them.

Now this passage clearly states that the " Dead " which were Abraham, Lazarus and the rich man were all very much conscious and aware of their surroundings, even the rich man was concerned with his living brothers and wished that Abraham or Lazarus could go to his house to warn them. Which means the " Spirit " is alive and very much conscious
About his living relatives, But the Body is asleep in the ground until Christ comes, then the Body will come together with the Spirit and be resurrected in the second coming of Christ.

Some people are attracted to the power that comes from being able to produce something unusual. Other people are very sensitive to paranormal things, just like some people are talented in different areas. And other people are looking for solace, such as after a death, and long to see the deceased. You can see it's about your will, and focusing your attention. There's much confusion, because these apparitions don't seem to have a definite purpose, but only lead us to conclusions, or just scare us. I would suggest that when god speaks to you, you'll have definite directions. My theory about apparitions, is that a place's walls or interior, has somehow recorded energy, and for some reason this energy gets played back like a recording. If you listen to those who would speak to the deceased, you will notice they will only bring up that which could have happened while the person was alive, because they're good at reading this recording. The future is very troublesome, especially in the case of a dead person, because only god can create the future. I can see how people want to explore this realm, but I don't think they'll ever come to a definite conclusion about it, because the dead are dead, and the demons only want to work their own ends.

If you will read that passage about Saul and the witch carefully, you can see that it was NOT Samuel, but a spirit impersonating Samuel. The Bible is VERY explicit about not speaking with the dead, so you can be certain that He would not allow Samuel to speak from where he was to king Saul. The reason for this prohibition is obviously because it can be used so easily to deceive humans.

[QUOTE=In Sorrow]

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Saul went to Endor to contact Samuels ghost

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Vs 6 of 1 Samuel states that even though Saul was enquiring of God, he wouldn't answer him, because he had lost favor with him, so in desperation he went to a spirit medium. That any sort of divination is condemned in the OT (Lev 20:27) and that those seeking mediums would be cut off (Lev 20:6) could only mean that the appearing of "Samuel" was of demonic origin.

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the Holy bible clearly states that it was Samuels Ghost, and did not mention anything about a Demon.

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Saul and the spirit medium only assumed it was Samuel.

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Lazarus and the rich man.

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If we look at the setting in vs 14 of Luke Chap 4, it shows how the Pharisees were listening and sneering at the things Jesus was saying. So he used this illustration of Lazarus and the rich man to show the Pharisees/religious leaders that although they think they may be first in line for the kingdom, they were in fact to miss out on sitting at the "table of God" (the bosom position of Abraham), unlike the ones like Lazarus who were despised and neglected, but they would enjoy the benefits of the kingdom first.

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and the rich man was buried and in Hades was in torment

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This death symbolizes the death of the religious leaders privileges and advantages that they once held as God's chosen people because they were now arrogant and haughty to the Lazarus type ones. By comparing Psalm 31:17 or Psalm 115:17, Sheol (Hebrew) or Hades (Greek) which is the common grave of man, seems to be a place where one cannot even speak so this tells me also that it is an illustration and not an actual event in history.

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hear Moses and the Prophets

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.. or the OT. This rich man does not want to hear and listen to words from the OT but in fact wants to see signs of proof in order for his "brothers" to repent or show true faith. By wanting his tongue cooled by Lazarus would have meant he would have to leave the favored position of God to preach nice soothing words to him and make him feel that he was still good in the public's eyes.

The fact too that there are 5 brothers makes them 6 in total - a number used in the bible for imperfection and sin. They represented the natural descendants of Abraham, or the Israelites, who as we know were rejected by God (Matt 21:43).

The Bible indicates that once a person dies that person ceases to exist. So whomever comes to you in a dream or whomever someone may see as a "ghost". It is not a dead human. Dead humans are just that, dead. They cannot and therefore do not communicate or appear to us, the living. Bad spirits of the spirit realm can and do influence us. They can also be extremely cunning just as a con artist who does "good" things for you, just to gain your trust. Once they gain your trust they can manipulate you for whatever purpose.

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Originally Posted by Patriarch

The Bible indicates that once a person dies that person ceases to exist. .

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I believe the Bible says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" not that we cease to exist!

2Cr 5:6 Therefore [we are] always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Cr 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:}
2Cr 5:8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

What could be resurrected, but those who are dead?

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Originally Posted by tadita83

I believe the Bible says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" not that we cease to exist!

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That passage has to do with the resurrection, for those who have died and are raised to heavenly life with Christ. It does not give any indication that resurrection is automatic immediately at death. Please read Psalms 146:3,4; Ecclesiastates 9:5, 10; Ezekiel 18:4,20 The Bible also indicates that death is like sleep not an instantaneous transformation of one life form to another. Sleep is inactive and dormant not awake.

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Originally Posted by Patriarch

That passage has to do with the resurrection, for those who have died and are raised to heavenly life with Christ. It does not give any indication that resurrection is automatic immediately at death. Please read Psalms 146:3,4; Ecclesiastates 9:5, 10; Ezekiel 18:4,20 The Bible also indicates that death is like sleep not an instantaneous transformation of one life form to another. Sleep is inactive and dormant not awake.

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P.S. Back to the subject at hand. Since humans are dead or nonexistent in the grave, the so-called ghosts are not former humans but spirit beings. They are far more intelligent than humans and easily deceive and manipulate people's minds.

I don't have the answers to everything as shocking as that may seem.. ha. BUT I can say this that for the Christian... to be absent from the body is to be present with the LORD! However, there is a reason that the LORD didn't want his people (Israel) messing around with the occult! If you read in Samuel you will find that Saul did just that and he was able to talke to Samuel through the witch of Endor. Can people see ghosts? I sincerely doubt that they can but I do believe they see demonic spirits. The Lord hasn't changed HIS mind.. we are NOT to have anything to do with the occult. And frankly should I see a ghost trust me on this... I won't be chatting with it.

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Originally Posted by tadita83

I believe the Bible says "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" not that we cease to exist!

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This is Truth.. When we die our soul returns to the Father, and our spiritual realm is within the heart and mind. The heart mind and soul has a flesh house, born of woman on this earth. The flesh body will return to dust , which really shows us how vanity exists about the body here on earth.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spiritual realm is very real and should be avoided in causion as the bible has told us. The imperfects of the world age today was caused by a spiritual realm, known in satan and fallen angles of the first age. And it is spoken of in Eph 3.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

This is Truth.. When we die our soul returns to the Father, and our spiritual realm is within the heart and mind. The heart mind and soul has a flesh house, born of woman on this earth. The flesh body will return to dust , which really shows us how vanity exists about the body here on earth.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spiritual realm is very real and should be avoided in causion as the bible has told us. The imperfects of the world age today was caused by a spiritual realm, known in satan and fallen angles of the first age. And it is spoken of in Eph 3.

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Well I disagree with you a bit.. Not EVERYONE returns to the Father.. only those who trust in Jesus as savior. We do get our bodies back and they will be perfection like the Lord Jesus during the rapture of the Church. But we are getting off thread.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Well I disagree with you a bit.. Not EVERYONE returns to the Father..only those who trust in Jesus as savior. We do get our bodies back and they will be perfection like the Lord Jesus during the rapture of the Church. but we are getting off thread.

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Getting the body back would be saying scripture is incorrect, because it says the flesh returns to dust..
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

You would also have to explain the story of Lazarus and the rich man who both died and ended up on opposite sides of the great gulf that separated the good from the bad.. Each returned to the spiritual realm.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

As for the rapture.. you are following man's doctrine of a religious movement. There is a topic thread already posted.. you can read of it there

Snbay,

Now how did I know we wouldn't agree? ;) oh well lets agree to disagree. I think you are goofy but your heart is right... I guess the scripture in Amos is correct... how can two walk together except they agree? We would NOT be able to walk together.. because your wrong and I'm right and I'd have to tell you... lol :)

Why does seeing spirits of the dead have to be an act of the Devil? Couldn't it be God speaking to to people, too? What better way for Him to reach us than through the image of a familiar face?

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

Why does seeing spirits of the dead have to be an act of the Devil? Couldn't it be God speaking to to people, too? What better way for Him to reach us than through the image of a familiar face?

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Because the same chapter of Luke16 the richman requested that they send someone back from the dead to tell his brothers, because he wanted them to know the truth. That doesn't happen for the same reason today. We are suppose to live from the example wrtten in scripture.. Converting to the child of God in obedience, doing the will of God.

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.